03-07-08 Recently this post was posted on the postmormon.com website and I have received many comments from former members who are eager to debate doctrine. My intention with this post was not to debate whether Joseph Smith was a prophet or the LDS church is true/false, etc. Any comments made that are not uplifting or off-topic will be deleted. If your intentions lead to off-topic discussions you are invited to go to another forum. Here is the original post:
I was on vacation a couple years ago in Hawaii and there was an interesting lesson on how to strengthen against apostasy. I jotted down the 9 steps to strenthen against apostasy and put them in my scriptures. This morning I came across them again and thought I’d share.
Personally, I feel apostasy is distancing myself from the Lord and His teachings and truths that he has revealed to me about His gospel and teachings. Each one of us have had different things revealed to us and it is up to us to keep searching and growing in light and truth. When we stop searching by praying, studying scriptures, serving, etc. we are taking steps towards apostasy. Following these suggestions can help us maintain the Holy Ghost and help us endure to the end.
Strengthening Against Apostasy
1.) Avoid those who would tear down your faith
2.) Keep the commandments
3.) Follow the living prophets
4.) Don’t debate points of doctrine (3Nephi 11:28)
5.) Search the scriptures
6.) Don’t be swayed from the mission of the church
7.) Pray for enemies
8.) Practice pure religion (James 1:27)
9.) Remember not everything has an immediate answer
As I look over these steps, I see things I can definitely improve on. Questions to consider are: how do I react when someone from another faith comes on my blog and shares their experiences and even attacks me? Do I pray for them or do I try to argue points of doctrine with them? How am I doing with studying the scriptures? Am I practicing pure religion as James describes it by visiting the homeless and the widows? Am I impatient when I pray and demand an immediate answer? Do I follow our modern day prophets or do I scoff at them?
These are important things to consider. I know the closer I am to the Lord and His Spirit, the happier I feel. I hope we can all ponder these questions and be thankful if we’re on the right track and if we’re not, make some changes to get back on track.
42 comments
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March 4, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Jeff G
I know it’s going to sound harsher than I really want it to, but what difference would there be between this list and another list titled: 9 steps for a religious fanatic to be as close-minded as possible and not even consider the possibility that they might be wrong. Again, it sounds harsh, but I think this is a point which deserves some attention.
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March 5, 2008 at 12:44 am
marlajayne
Enjoyed reading this. Tonight I’m particularly tuned in to numbers 1, 2, 4, and 9 and would like to briefly comment on each:
1. Avoid those who would tear down your faith. Whenever possible, I make it a practice to sidestep negative energy in all areas of my life and especially so with religion.
2. Keep the commandments. As the hymn says, in this there is safety and peace.
4. Don’t debate with others not of your faith. On the few occasions in which I have done this, I’ve learned that it is completely fruitless AND that usually the spirit is completely gone after a few moments. Both parties end up feeliing contentious and perturbed.
9. There are seldom immediate answers to prayer. This is so true! In fact, now that I’m thinking about it, you’ve given me an idea for a blog about this very topic.
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March 5, 2008 at 1:08 am
ama49
Hi Jeff,
I appreciate you stopping by and sharing another perspective. Off the top of my head this is what I think about your post of being close-minded, fanatical, and not being willing to consider one is wrong.
If one is remotely spiritually minded he/she will notice a force of positive and a force of negative energy in the world. Regardless of beliefs this is something that is true.
Another truth is that when we focus on positive things, i.e. things that are true and pray asking if they are true, the Holy Spirit confirms them to us.
Now, once someone has prayed and felt the confirmation of the Spirit that something (whatever it may be) is true the individual then has a choice. They can choose to either focus on the positive or the negative.
So if someone has felt a confirmation that the Book of Mormon is true and that all or portions of the LDS church is true, or that Jesus is their Savior, or Prophets, etc. etc. then they have the choice to focus their energy on growing in the faith and the truths they’ve learned or to focus on criticism and negative things.
Therefore, it is not fruitful to enter into discussion with someone who’s intent is to tear down your faith or to argue points of doctrine. Sure, we can chat with people about differing views, etc. but when it turns to contention then that is when we should withdraw if we want to focus on the positive.
marlyjane addresses this in part in comment number two.
That being said, I don’t think it is good to be close minded in the sense that we disregard what others beliefs are if they are different than ours. I think we can have a healthy conversation with others without it leading to contention. When the point of the discussion is to find common ground even if there are differing views it can lead to something positive.
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March 5, 2008 at 2:29 am
Richard Hennessey
Does “Don’t debate points of doctrine (3Nephi 11:28)” also mean don’t discuss points of doctrine? Does it also mean do not think seriously about the possibility that the opposite point of view may be right?
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March 5, 2008 at 3:11 am
ama49
Hi Richard,
Thanks for the good questions.
My personal opinion is that it isn’t healthy to close ourselves up and not discuss other points of doctrine at all. Part of learning and growing is asking questions. If Joseph Smith hadn’t asked the question he would never have had the answer to prayer. My personal belief is that we should objectively consider where someone is coming from or how they could believe what they believe and then evaluate it to what we’ve been taught by the Spirit. In my mind, debating points of doctrine is arguing that you are right and they are wrong and essentially trying to prove a point.
In a nutshell, avoid conversations with those who are not sincere seekers of truth.
What do you think?
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March 5, 2008 at 4:58 am
J. Stapley
I respectfully submit that Christ’s exhortation that there be no disputations among His people regarding his doctrine be read in context of his own definition of His doctrine in the same chapter (3 Ne 11: 32-35).
Of course we should discuss and debate what we believe. But if we cannot agree on Christ’s self explained doctrine (noteably faith, repentance and baptism), then we are not his people.
I’m not too sure about number nine either. Can’t think of any good justification for it.
I also think there is a huge difference between those who seek to destroy our faith and those who believe or think differently. While I avoid “anti” folk, I love to learn about other peoples perspectives.
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March 5, 2008 at 8:18 am
Roger Morrison
I do not seek to destroy Mormonism. I will present one point, and never visit this website again, so think what you like.
Polygamy is an accepted element of Mormonism. I understand it’s roots, but that doesn’t change it’s acceptance today.
Sex is a very special thing between two people, and to think that it’s all right to disrespect and hurt your wife(s) and sleep with multiple women is just plain wrong. There is a reason why we feel pain and betrayed when the one we love is intimate with another. This is natural human emotion, alive within us, as God is. To turn your back on such a simple, black and white truth of life is ludicrous. You know full well who is behind sex for pleasure. You know he loves when you disrespect God’s natural design and hurt a woman who truly loves you. And if you say she is okay with it, it is only because she has been taught to believe it is wrong to trust her feelings of betrayal, as you have been taught to believe it is okay. I believe all Mormons should do some serious thinking about how incredibly human-pleasing their ways are, and how much they bend the rules of God.
Sincerely,
Roger
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March 5, 2008 at 2:57 pm
ifokus
Those are all good points to ponder, but I feel that standing up, and if need be, fighting for your faith is equally important as praying for your enemies. We as LDS have to stand for something, even if it involves a righteous battle.
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March 5, 2008 at 8:11 pm
ht
I love your definition of Apostate, because it means that even after leaving the church years ago I am closer to my Savior now than I ever was as a mormon. I read in the Bible more today then ever and find myself craving time in the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. I feel so free in believing that He died for me. He loves me. I wish I could even share half of what is in my heart about His love. I used to think that I had to earn salvation through doing visiting teaching, cooking meals, subbing in primary, having lots of kids, getting sealed in the temple, geneology. Nope none of that is neccessary for anyones Salvation. Only to believe in him and you will be saved and return to live with him again. I love my Savior more today than any single day in the mormon church.
I believe that because Mormons are so busy earning their salvation they never take the time to really see if all of it is true…research and know the TRUTH will set you FREE!!!!!!
You have a great blog by the way!
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March 5, 2008 at 10:04 pm
ZeeZrom
When I was still a believer… well, actually I wasn’t even a “believer” during my mission. So, what I guess I mean is: While I was still an active LDS member I remember lessons like these to help guard against apostacy. I didn’t take much stock in them, as I too saw them more like Jeff mentioned… steps to remaining close-minded.
The one that really makes me wonder is the most is #3. Who’s to say that following the modern prophets won’t lead to complete disaster? For instance, let’s say that Wilford Woodruff’s ban on Polygamy WAS 100% enacted so Utah could be granted statehood (I personally believe this, but faithful LDS believe otherwise, and that’s fine). So, what happens when you die and go to the Judgement and Jesus or Joseph Smith (since he’s apparently one of the judges to get into heaven) asks you why you didn’t follow the true teachings of the prophets from the scriptures. And then when you tell them, well, the prophet (Wilford Woodruff in this case) said that it was no longer God’s principle, but they tell you that you should have followed the promptings of personal revelation that the holy ghost gave you when reading about polygamy in the D&C, since personal revelation should trump prophet/church revelation, etc. Do you see what I’m getting at? Let’s say that tomorrow Thomas Monson says that the practice of polygamy is to be reinstated and that every faithful member needs to take up the practice again. New prophets trump old, right? Or is the prophet preaching falsities? I guess you just turn to the spirit? What happens when priesthood holding men receive different spiritual revelations than their wives concerning this new doctrine? I’m only using the polygamy example as it would be a very drastic change. But whose to say a lot of the changes in church doctrine through the years, small as they may have seemed, weren’t wrong? What about those “other” mormons who are ridiculed for doing what they say was merely “following the personal promptings” that they received? Who’s right? Who’s wrong?
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March 5, 2008 at 10:08 pm
ZeeZrom
One other thing. #4. Don’t debate points of doctrine? What about when one piece of doctrine contradicts a different piece of doctrine?
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March 6, 2008 at 4:01 am
ama49
#7
Roger,
I don’t know what polygamy has to do with this post, but thanks for stopping by. I will agree with you that I’m very glad there isn’t polygamy like there was in the Bible as well as the early LDS church. I’m not a fan.
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March 6, 2008 at 4:01 am
ama49
#8
You’re right. It is important to stand for something.
What is your definition of a “righteous battle” though?
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March 6, 2008 at 4:06 am
ama49
#9
I appreciate you bringing up the point that works (i.e. church callings, etc.) alone do not bring us salvation. You are absolutely right that it is only through Jesus that salvation comes.
However, believing in Jesus is only half of it. The devil believes in Jesus too. That’s why the Bible teaches Faith, Works, and Grace are what save us. I recently wrote a post on this subject: https://graceforgrace.com/2008/02/19/do-you-believe-living-a-good-life-is-more-important-than-grace-or-less/
I’m glad you are developing and have an even greater love for the Lord now in your life. What do you do differently now than before in order to feel closer to the Lord?
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March 6, 2008 at 4:12 am
ama49
Zeezrom,
I like you. You’re a thinker. You hit me up with so many questions I’ll need to fast and pray for 3 days in order to get an answer to all of that! : )
My initial thought to your comment is that if we’re in tune with the Lord and have humility, then more than likely we’ll be in line with what the prophet has to say. The definition of a prophet is one that speaks with the power of the Holy Ghost. Many people act as prophets when moved upon. Therefore, if we’re in tune and a prophet (which can be the president of the church or anyone else who is moved upon by the spirit to speak truth) reveals something, then we’ll have it confirmed to us by the Spirit.
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March 6, 2008 at 4:16 am
wardfunk
Great blog! I’m not sure how I would respond to all these points of discussion if someone posted them on my blog – good on ya!
Recently in Sacrament meeting, a lady spoke who was a convert to the church from another Christian religion said something very interesting – that some people confuse contention with the Spirit.
It is difficult for me when people challenge where I stand – agree with point #1 and 4. Kudos to you for taking a stance and standing strong.
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March 6, 2008 at 4:18 am
ama49
#6
Stapley,
I appreciate you bringing up the fact that Jesus was referring to those specific doctrines. So do you think that we can argue to our hearts content with all other doctrinal issues then? : )
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March 6, 2008 at 4:33 am
ht
I believe you misunderstood what I was writing. I believe you do NOT have to do anything but believe in Jesus to have salvation. I believe you do NOT need works to be saved, however we work because we are saved. I am sure you will misinterupt these words too.
Things I do differently since leaving the church…read only the Bible since I believe the BOM is nothing more then a great religious fictional book. I no longer feel guilt of not living up to the standards of the LDS gospel. I am no longer weighed down by the heavy chains of the so called convenants in the temple. I lived in fear most of my mormon life. Fear that if I didn’t do everything full out that I would lose blessings and not live with God again. No longer. I no longer have to pay a tithe in order to do the Lord’s work.
Wow this list is really helping me realize how blessed my life is with being set free from captivity. God is good. He loves us all.
In essance what the mormon church teaches about getting closer to the savior is very true. Read, Pray, and Ponder. But the church makes everything so complicated. Even when they say all you need to live with HF again is baptisim. Then you get involved further and now you learn you have your own endowments to live in God’s presence in the CK. The Lds believe that Jesus atoned for everyone’s sins, but then instead of just praying and asking for forgiveness…you have to go before your bishop and tell all those embarrassing things and he gets to “act as a judge of isreal”.
The list of things you have to do to get back to God is daunting. And quite honestly is way to complicated. It takes a lot to believe that He sent his son to die for us. A lot of people suffer with believing this simple doctrine their whole lives before excepting the TRUTH. I don’t know about you but I find a lot of anxiety in the gospel. The biggest release of anxiety is realizing you can’t do anything to earn salvation….it is a gift.
I pray that all mormons will be set free and learn the truth is ONLY in our Savior. The mormon gospel is nothing more then a gospel of servitude and obligation. And mormons are forever prisioners in their so called doctrine.
Sorry it is so long…but you did ask. Thank you for hearing me out.
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March 6, 2008 at 5:31 am
ama49
ht,
Thanks for sharing your views and I can understand how you feel.
First, I like what you said about our works should come because of being saved. Now, if I understand you right you mean that because of the love of the Lord we feel and the desire to serve Him, we do works…right? Ideally that’s what we are doing in our families, in our callings in church (whatever church that is), etc.
When you talk about church callings and feeling overwhelmed and stressed, etc. I know 100% how you feel. I was an Elder’s Quorom president once over a group of 120 elders. It went very well for the first 1 1/2 years and the cool thing was that before I was even called I felt called to that calling by the Spirit. However, I had some medical issues come up and I felt guilty for not being able to fulfill the calling and tried pushing for a few months until I couldn’t take it anymore. I had to ask to be released to focus on my health. I think you bring up a good point that may be good for a future blog.
I think a lot of LDS members feel like you and I did and it would be good to address that salvation is a gift because it is the Lord’s gift to give through His grace and mercy. You are right on with that.
Now as far as the Bishop’s are concerned. I appreciate you bringing that up as well. I think this is an issue many people have and I’ll have to do more research scripturally as to where this comes from, but in order to be true to our baptismal covenants there needs to be some measure of accountability. I wish I had more information scripturally for you about this, but I’ll have to do more research.
I really appreciate you bringing this up because the gospel is simple. Everything centers around Jesus and His atonement. Jesus in the Bible and the Book of Mormon (more clearly in the Book of Mormon) says: humilty, repentance, baptism are what is essential for salvation. Remembering this throughout our lives is also essential and if we don’t continue to repent and remain humble, we are apt to get into a situation of hardening our hearts against the Lord’s Spirit. Therefore, “working out our salvation” as it says in the Book of Mormon doesn’t mean salvation is a one time shot. We need to be focused on getting closer to the Lord every day by practicing humility, repentance, faith, etc. which it sounds like you are doing a very good job of setting an example for all of us to follow.
I too pray that not only Mormons, but all of God’s children will be set free and truly learn and feel that truth is only in the Lord and His atonement.
I’m very happy to see that you are doing well and I appreciate your prayers and concern.
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March 6, 2008 at 5:43 am
ama49
#16
Ward Funk,
Like your name and checked out your website. Looks pretty cool!
Thanks for your encouragement. The way I look at everything as stated in my purpose of this blog, is that we are all learning and growing. All of us have varying experiences and challenges in the world with our spirituality and many comments left here by us are reflections of where we are in our journey.
I view each person as a fellow brother or sister and appreciate those who take the time to come on here. My hope is that it helps us all come closer to Heavenly Father and Jesus.
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March 6, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Becca
I have to admit that I have been thinking all day about things that people have said in regard to this post. I was quite surprised at how negative some of the comments were. I suppose I just didn’t read the original post that way; there is a huge difference between people who “tear down your faith” and people who disagree with you; there is also a big difference between “debating points of doctrine” and discussing them. Anyway, what I really wanted to say is in regard to ht’s comments.
Most of my thoughts today have been as to why the LDS church wants us to do the things that we are invited to do. The bottom line for me is that we do those things more for other people than for ourselves. We don’t visit teach because it secures us a better seat in heaven, but to strengthen those around us in friendship and support; we don’t take food to families in need because we want to eat more in the next life, but to help those in a position not able to help themselves; we do not substitute in primary because we fear hell-fire, but because teaching and nurturing children is the best way to make lasting change in an individual life and consequently the world.
I am sure we will all agree that there are many people in this world in need of help on so many different levels and because of so many different reasons. I can’t help but think that God is hoping we will do our part to help relieve those burdens. Just like James said, as the 8th point mentions above, PURE religion is to visit people in their affliction–to really put ourselves in a position to help. While Jesus was on the earth, He lived his life for others and as we try to follow in His example, we ought to do the same and not worry so much about ourselves.
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March 6, 2008 at 4:38 pm
ZeeZrom
I’ll address ht as well. Dude, or Dudette, I’m happy for you that you were able to weave your way through and out of the mormon maze. But I always find it incredible that one can do that, yet not seem to weave their way through and out of the christian maze. You say the BOM is a fictional religious text. I would argue the bible is also a fictional piece. Not to mention the q’uran, et. all. Seriously, when I took that step back and looked at my LDS beliefs, and found them to be untrue, I took a second step back and looked at christianity and found similar untruths. Finally, I took a 3rd step back and found all religion is practically the same in that they’re all based in man-made fiction. I remember well my 11th grade AP history teacher (a mormon, btw.)… I can’t remember what founding father he was talking about, Jefferson or Franklin or someone else, but he quoted one of them as saying, “god did not create man, man created god.” Yeppers. The more I examine the concept of god and religion, the more I agree with that statement.
Peace.
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March 6, 2008 at 4:54 pm
ZeeZrom
One other thing on polygamy. I hate to harp on this, but it always bugs me when LDS members make statements like yours, Aaron: ‘I will agree with you that I’m very glad there isn’t polygamy like there was in the Bible as well as the early LDS church. I’m not a fan.’
To be 100% honest, polygamy is alive and well in the LDS church. Although it isn’t practiced “physically” it is still practiced “spiritually”. I know plenty of men who have been sealed to multiple women. One is an uncle of mine. He married and was sealed to his first wife, who died. He then married and was sealed to another woman. They divorced, yet did not get a “temple divorce”, so they are still technically sealed together for eternity. He’s now married and sealed to a 3rd woman. Those sealings, therefore, give that guy multiple wives that will supposedly be waiting for him in the ck. How is that not polygamy?
Granted, I don’t believe in an afterlife, so none of this should matter to me, but when I was still a member this bugged the crap out of me, because it IS polygamy, and we’re brought up to believe different things about polygamy. 1-it was a wonderful thing for the pioneers and we wouldn’t be here had our greatx3 grandfathers not practiced this law, etc., etc., etc. 2-it’s a horrible thing NOW, and our church wouldn’t even consider practicing this law again, ‘cuz the never changing god changed his mind and banned it.
Come on!
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March 7, 2008 at 1:10 am
Sara
Thanks for providing this forum. I’m always intrigued by the phrase “endure to the end.” What exactly is it we’re “enduring?” Life? I find it to be a beautiful adventure, not just a means to an end.
About those rules… If a person has a personal relationship with the creator, s(he) doesn’t need any rules. There is no apostasy. We’re all one.
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March 7, 2008 at 1:33 am
ama49
#24
Sara, thanks for stopping by and for your great comment. I think you hit it right on! If we have a personal relationship with God we’ll be doing all of these things anyways out of the love we feel for Him.
Great thought! Stop by anytime.
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March 7, 2008 at 5:00 am
Sara
Well, that’s not exactly what I meant.
I don’t think you have to do all those things to love God. I think He wants us to use our intellects to question and reason things out for ourselves. I don’t think He wants us to avoid people. I think He wants us to include them. I don’t think He wants us to follow anything blindly, including a prophet or any particular church.
The one point I do agree on is trying to live a life of love and compassion.
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March 7, 2008 at 7:47 am
ama49
#27
Sara,
I agree fully with you. Of course we should reason things out and of course we shouldn’t “avoid people” and of course he wants us to include people. See comment number 21 for a good description of what “tearing one’s faith” means.
As for blindly following is concerned, I don’t see how using one’s agency to read, study, pray, help the widows and homeless, and stick with positive people is “blindly” following anyone. We all have a choice to do these things or not to.
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March 8, 2008 at 3:45 pm
ht
It looks like my last one got deleted by accident. Did I offend?
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March 8, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Sara
My concerns are mostly with #’s 1 and 4 on the list. I find that they discourage a person from questioning, and they exclude other people who are also questioning. And if you can’t question, or talk about it, then you can’t really get to the truth.
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March 8, 2008 at 9:45 pm
ht
I just wanted to let you know that I am a seeker of truth. (but in your fairness maybe we are seeking for different truthes)
1.) Avoid those who would tear down your faith
Should it read tear down religion instead of faith. Isn’t every person’s faith different?
2.) Keep the commandments
I believe 100% in keeping the commandments.
3.) Follow the living prophets
As a person seeking the truth I wonder if modern day prophecy is true…
4.) Don’t debate points of doctrine (3Nephi 11:28) I agree with Sara on this one…
5.) Search the scriptures
This has become quite the passion for me lately and I can appreciate the fact you do the same.
6.) Don’t be swayed from the mission of the church
I may have let this one go cause the whole redeeming the dead kind of got shot for me. But I do love to perfect the saints…it is a joy to be a part of. I didn’t like sharing the gospel either I always felt like I was defending it…
7.) Pray for enemies
Still do this every day
8.) Practice pure religion (James 1:27)
By the definition of this bible scripture I can say that yes I do this.
9.) Remember not everything has an immediate answer
True that.. I have prayed for many years and the answer was finally given recently.
My intent was never to offend only let you know what I have been going through. Too bad so many people came and attacked ya. Never my intent.
thank
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March 10, 2008 at 5:47 pm
ZeeZrom
Aaron, in regards to post #15, you define a prophet as “one that speaks with the power of the holy ghost”. Prior to that you said that if we were in tune with the lord and have humility, then we’ll probably be in line with the prophet and what he has to say. One of the points I was getting at in my post #10 was that the prophet can pretty much say whatever he wants, but for some reason, it’s really up to each individual member to decide whether or not what the prophet is saying is really doctrine or not… unless it becomes scripture, then I guess ‘officially’ it’s doctrine (is it still officially doctrine if it’s printed in the Ensign? It was when I was still a member, as far as I recall, which then technically made every talk from the prophet doctrine, since every conference talk was printed in the Ensign). Therein lies the problem, as I see it. Who’s to say who’s actually in tune with the h.g., or lord, or spirit, or whatever? As I see it, the setup of the church having a prophet that speaks on random topics every 6 months and then leaving it to the members to decipher his musings IS an exact setup of mind controlling, non-questioning faith. As Jeff G said in post #1, the list seems to be a list not of faith strengthening, but of close mindedness.
And sorry about my post #23. Since there was never a reply to that, I guess it was offensive or misunderstood and that wasn’t my intent. However the whole “polygamy is no longer in ‘the church'” was one thing that really chapped me while I was still a member, and still to this day.
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March 10, 2008 at 7:10 pm
ama49
#30
HT,
This post is fine. I appreciate you responding this way and sharing how this can help you and uplift you as well as understanding. My intent with this blog is to be constructive and many of the comments I was receiving (the majority of them I didn’t post) were not constructive.
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March 10, 2008 at 7:12 pm
ama49
#31
Zeezrom,
You visit this site frequently. What are your intentions with the comments you make?
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March 10, 2008 at 8:24 pm
ZeeZrom
I assure you I have no ill intentions. I enjoy your posts and I enjoy your responses to my inquiries. If you prefer, I can just read and keep my opinions and questions to myself. I’m sorry you had a slew of argumentative posts/comments. I didn’t get a chance to read any of them, as I don’t usually peruse the web on weekends (there’s way too much fun to be had!). I never wanted to be a thorn in your side, mein Kumpel.
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March 13, 2008 at 3:24 am
hawkgrrrl
I like ht’s post where he gives his take on the above 9 suggestions, so I thought I would elaborate on what type of apostacy these are designed to prevent:
1.) Avoid those who would tear down your faith – I take this to be very subjective and personal, to avoid those who would tear down MY faith (not all religion or all faith, but those who would be a specific detrimental influence on me based on my own tendencies. So, if the root cause of apostacy is peer pressure, this is your prevention.
2.) Keep the commandments – once you slip on this one, it’s a lot easier to keep going, knowing the long road to hoe to get back on track. Root cause = one sin begets another.
3.) Follow the living prophets – I consider it significant that it doesn’t say “blindly” follow. I would say “prayerfully follow” the living prophets. While I sustain the leaders, I also believe they are human beings capable of being misunderstood. Root cause = getting out of touch with current revelation and/or losing a testimony of the restoration & ongoing revelation.
4.) Don’t debate points of doctrine (3Nephi 11:28) – I agree this is a slippery slope. I would say “don’t contend” or “don’t rationalize,” but discussion is important. Root cause = getting tripped up in verbal loopholes or misunderstandings and losing the spirit; focusing too much on the mysteries vs. the applications.
5.) Search the scriptures – Root cause = getting out of touch with a daily link to spiritual matters.
6.) Don’t be swayed from the mission of the church – always best to be actively engaged in a good cause. Root cause = having faith without taking any action leads to church being merely theoretical.
7.) Pray for enemies – Root cause = being offended can lead to apostacy.
8.) Practice pure religion (James 1:27) – Root cause = if you don’t draw near unto God, He fades into the background of your life until He disappears.
9.) Remember not everything has an immediate answer – Root cause = impatience with God (seeking a sign?)
I’ve appreciated the variety of comments in response to this seemingly straightforward post. It’s interesting to see different viewpoints from various people seeking truth in their own ways.
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March 14, 2008 at 1:01 am
KingM
I don’t understand the fear of debate that many people have. Maybe I just love a good, vigorous exchange of ideas too much for my own good, but I don’t think true things have anything to fear from false, rotten ideas.
We’d never be afraid to debate the merits of democracy vs. a communist dictatorship, as an example. We’d fully expect our views to triumph.
The only reason to avoid debate is if we’re afraid of the result, and that’s hardly the path of the truth seeker.
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March 14, 2008 at 2:13 pm
ama49
#35
hawkgrrl. I appreciate your straightforward clarification of this as well as your opinions. I learned through this post the difference between a healthy discussion and when one looses the spirit and it turns into debate. I also really appreciate your view on prayerfully following vs. blindly following the prophets.
thanks for stopping by.
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March 14, 2008 at 2:16 pm
ama49
#36
KingM
I appreciate your comments as well. I think as long as people have the intention of learning and growing it is fine to discuss differences. That is how we grow. There is, however, a difference between a “healthy discussion” and an attack on one’s faith with manipulative questions and comments designed to either trap one in their words or break down thier faith. This is what the Pharisees did to Jesus. I like what Jesus did. He simply didn’t speak on many occasions. Not because he was afraid, but because they weren’t in a position to be open to learning. (this is my opinion, of course.)
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March 14, 2008 at 5:30 pm
What’s this Sword for? « Grace for Grace
[…] recently, I posted on Steps to Avoiding Apostacy, which in my mind are steps to avoid loosing the Spirit. I feel that all of us are in a […]
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March 19, 2008 at 5:38 am
Soy Yo
Strengthening Against Apostacy
3.) Follow the living prophets
So by that, do you mean that whever Joseph Smith taught is not revelent anymore? Can Pres. Monson trump the revelations and doctrine that the Prophet Joseph brought to light? If this is true why are the teachings of JS the topic for RS and PH meeting?
Just wondering…
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March 20, 2008 at 4:26 am
ama49
#40
I think that’s pretty extreme to say “whatever JS taught isn’t relevent anymore…”
and living in my opinion means changing, growing, progressing…there have been some revelations by Joseph Smith that other prophets have “trumped” in your words…so in my opinion, it is definitely the current prophet’s voice that we should heed. That’s the blessing of having a prophet on the earth for our day. Of course, we will want to stay close to the Spirit because it is the Spirit that confirms truth and when the Prophet speaks, the Spirit will confirm if it’s truth.
What are your thoughts?
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May 17, 2008 at 6:27 am
Remembering to Walk with God when we don’t Feel like it « Grace for Grace
[…] May 16, 2008 by ama49 My wife and I have most recently been reading Truman G Madsen’s book entitled “Christ and the Inner Life.” This is a very good book and some of the concepts from it I’ve written about in previous posts. […]
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