I teach a class to new Mormon converts and people investigating joining the Mormon church called Gospel Principles. The past few weeks we have been discussing the LDS perspective of a pre-existent life where we had freedom to choose and make decisions prior to coming to earth. Our discussions have included the LDS perspective of a council held in Heaven and a War in Heaven happening prior to our earthly lives. For those not familiar with this doctrine, it is included below (as per the LDS Bible Dictionary):
War in Heaven. This term arises out of Rev. 12:7 and refers to the conflict that took place in the premortal existence among the spirit children of God. The war was primarily over how and in what manner the plan of salvation would be administered to the forthcoming human family upon the earth. The issues involved such things as agency, how to gain salvation, and who should be the Redeemer. The war broke out because one-third of the spirits refused to accept the appointment of Jesus Christ as the Savior. Such a refusal was a rebellion against the Father’s plan of redemption. It was evident that if given agency, some persons would fall short of complete salvation; Lucifer and his followers wanted salvation to come automatically to all who passed through mortality, without regard to individual preference, agency, or voluntary dedication (see Isa. 14:12–20; Luke 10:18; Rev. 12:4–13; D&C 29:36–38; Moses 4:1–4). The spirits who thus rebelled and persisted were thrust out of heaven and cast down to the earth without mortal bodies, “and thus came the devil and his angels” (D&C 29:37; see also Rev. 12:9;Abr. 3:24–28).
The warfare is continued in mortality in the conflict between right and wrong, between the gospel and false principles, etc. The same contestants and the same issues are doing battle, and the same salvation is at stake.
Although one-third of the spirits became devils, the remaining two-thirds were not all equally valiant, there being every degree of devotion to Christ and the Father among them. The most diligent were chosen to be rulers in the kingdom (Abr. 3:22–23). The nature of the conflict, however, is such that there could be no neutrals, then or now (Matt. 12:30; 1 Ne. 14:10; Alma 5:38–40).
Democrat Party is Satan’s Plan?
After we covered some of the key points to this doctrine, especially that of agency, some people in the class started talking politics. One lady, who is a relatively new Cuban immigrant, emphatically declared that Satan’s plan was like the Democrat Party in the United States because that party tries to take away our agency. (Her comment reminded me of an article I had read declaring the Democrat Party to be from Satan because of the people who booed at the Democrat Convention this year when asking if God should remain on the platform.)
At that point, I had to reel in the comments and nip the political conversations in the bud so to speak. Despite me telling them that discussing politics was off limits, like little children trying to push a parent to the edge, I had to keep reminding them throughout the class to keep it focused on doctrine, not politics.
Points to Consider
Her comments caused me to reflect on some things. Obviously, she has had much more troubling experiences with dictators since she is from Cuba. Is she just overly sensitive, or does she have some evidence that the Democrat Party is taking away agency from the citizens of the country?
If the Democrat party is indeed Satan’s plan, then there are many Christians, Catholics, and at least 15% of the Mormon population (including some Church general authorities) who are all on the highway to Hell, so to speak.
However, if the Democrat party isn’t Satan’s plan, then thoughts and comments like this are very divisive and do not cause unity, but enmity between people of the same faith, which is not productive.
Is it right to combine religious belief with political views?
Is it right to compare the Democrat Party to Satan’s plan?
If you do believe the Democrat Party is Satan’s plan, how is the best way to help others “see the light” so to speak?
If you are a Democrat and you hear that your party is from Satan, how do you help those telling you this to “see the light”?
There are so many points to consider. What are your thoughts?
Grace for Grace 
32 comments
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November 15, 2012 at 2:44 pm
LBK
Mosiah 2:17 was confirmation to me that the LDS faith was my faith. Every time I hear some version of the Romney “47%” or the Mormon libertarian screed of “what is mine is mine,” I wonder the opposite. Is the current Republican Party part of Satan’s plan?
A simple test. So one opposes Obama care. Where is the Republican alternative that would save the lives of thousands who cannot afford or obtain medical insurance? WWJD? I cannot believe He would have said, “let them die.”
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December 16, 2012 at 4:35 pm
Mike
The problem here is of force. You are forcing charity and we all know all the Church has said on force verses agency. The Lord also tells us not to steal, which is exactly what we are doing through delegating our own personal responsibility to care for others to the government, and asking them to steal the hard-earned monies of others. Thou shalt not steal That is a basic. The Democrat party does that. Additionally, the Church opposes abortion in most instances, and the Democrat party will not even support an opt out provision for those medical practitioners who find it against the beliefs. Then there is gay marriage, and we know what our Church has said about this. Then there are the provisions of Obamacare which will silence the right to conscience. It is going to hurt more than help, as Catholic charities and others are going to quit giving services, as they have in many places. And, the Church has told us about the dangers here. Read the September 2012 Ensign Article by Elder Quentin L. Cook on our restoring morality and religious freedom in this nation, because, as he states, if we allow religious freedom to vanish, many other freedoms will be lost as a result. Then there is Harry Reid who comes to Utah and publicly criticizes the Prophet of the Church, Ezra Taft Benson, and tells us that President Benson, with his extreme right wing philosophy led the members of the Church astray. He should be excommunicated. But, you are right on some points, and neither party has a corner on truth. President Hinckley “told us in his talk War and Peace “Political differences never justify hatred or ill will.” This is completely lost on the libertarians and Ron Paul people who have no idea what civility is. I am sure that I will get plenty of criticism over that one. Anyway, agency is the issue and those who will not work, as the Bible tells us “shall not eat.” So, ,be as upset over the 47% remarks as you want, but he was basically correct in what he said.
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November 15, 2012 at 2:56 pm
LBK
One additional point. Your choice of Democrat rather than the more proper Democratic Party is a choice almost always ssociated with right wing coservatives. Though the use of “Democrat Party” is not new, it gained usage again by uber conservatives in the 90’s because it does not sound pleasing to contemporary ears. I hope that is a simple error on your part and does not reflect bias.
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November 15, 2012 at 3:13 pm
graceforgrace
LBK,
You brought up some excellent points.
First, both parties and any system that is run by man will have errors. There are evil people in all parties.
Next, I’m relaying what people shared in class mostly, so my usage of wording reflects what I heard in class.
I lean more conservative than liberal, but I am not naiive to think that there isn’t evil in both political parties.
Finally, I can see why people are attracted to Obamacare. I just wonder if there are ways they could have put it together better and more clearly for the American people to understand, rather than being so secretive about it and cramming it through without scrutiny. You are right though, after people have tried done all they can do on their own, there should be something to help them with healthcare.
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November 15, 2012 at 3:29 pm
Perplexed
Satan’s plan is to “stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.” (3 NE 11:29) Does that lady realise that is what she is doing? Making statements like that, sooner or later she is going to find someone who disagrees with her and unless that person is willing to bite their tongue and say nothing…………. There is no place for political views in religious situations. Politics are purely of this world. I once heard a wonderful RS president ridiculed at a RS meeting (she was not present) because she held different political views than did the sisters laughing at her. How productive was that?
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November 15, 2012 at 5:09 pm
graceforgrace
Perplexed.
I agree with you and the scripture you shared was very good.
I think that people tend to mix their religious feelings with their political views and it is hard to separate them.
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November 15, 2012 at 7:44 pm
Cal
Without taking time to read your post right now, the answer to the title is yes. 🙂
I’ve been told by many sources that ObamaCare forces we pro-life tax payers to fund abortions—or something like that. Unconscionable!
However, I will pray for Pres. Obama.
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November 16, 2012 at 7:14 am
Last Lemming
I hate to break it to you Cal, but taxpayers have been subsidizing abortions ever since the first employer’s plan covered abortions. It will remain so, with or without Obamacare, until employer-paid premiums become taxable to the employee like any other income.
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November 19, 2012 at 5:35 pm
Cal
OK. . . . So what we want, then, is for the law to be changed with or without Obamacare.
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November 15, 2012 at 7:45 pm
Cal
Erase the smile from your mind—it doesn’t look right!
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November 15, 2012 at 7:45 pm
Cal
I mean the smile of my first comment.
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November 15, 2012 at 8:53 pm
ezra
Neither party is of God, of course, and it is not proper to claim that a godly person is a Republican or a Democratic.
Ms. Rodham-Clinton, when she was running for the presidency, claimed that her party was the only Christian choice, because they supported welfare programs more than others. Surely, Christ would sign on to the welfare system and align himself against the waskly Wepubwicans! So, passing out free stuff is godly. Let’s say that that is true.
Did Jesus support such notions? The Bible never shows Jesus forcibly taking money or goods from one person to give to another. John the Baptist urged tax-collectors to take what was lawful for them to take, and nothing else. Soldiers were told not to use force to intimidate others nor to take bribes from anyone. He urged all to live honest and decent lives. In his ministry, Jesus urged people to sell all that they had and give to the poor, but he never forced them to do this, nor did he force anyone to follow him. “Seek first the Kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you.” Life was not dependent on money, but was dependent upon God. When he was welcomed (not shunned) by Jesus, Zaccheus voluntarily paid back four-times as much as he had cheated others and then gave half his wealth to the poor. Gladly he changed his life and followed Jesus.
Jesus was keenly aware of those who claimed to love the poor but who had other motives. Jesus condemned the godly rich who gave massive donations to the church and to the poor, because they did it to call attention to their generous deeds. Why did they make a big deal of it? Because they sought not to help the poor as much as they wanted others to see how good they were; they didn’t love the poor and did not love God, either. They only sought the approval of their fellow man. In another instance, one of Jesus’ own disciples cried out that a bottle of very expensive perfume had been opened and poured out onto Jesus’ feet. “That bottle of perfume is worth a year’s wages!” he shouted. “That could have been sold and the money given to the poor!” That disciple was Judas; and his motive was far from pure. The Bible comments that Judas was the keeper of their money and he was a thief who helped himself to what was put into the group’s account. Jesus didn’t point out Judas’ thievery nor appoint another treasurer. Instead, he defended Mary’s action, saying, “You will always have the poor among you. You will not always have me. She has done a beautiful thing, for which she shall be remembered.”
So, is Jesus for one party or another? No. He had NO interest in an earthly kingdom. He was not of this world and neither were his disciples.
As to government, Jesus did not object to the Roman governance of Israel. Jesus did not object to taxation. He never spoke against Caesar’s right to gather taxes, rather, he affirmed that right. Likewise, St. Paul encouraged the church to pay taxes and fees and respect and honor to all who are in authority. They give themselves to this as a full-time responsibility on behalf of the people. Even if we are ruled by ungodly men, Jesus and Paul asserted that our citizenship was not of this world, but of God’s world. Neither as Democratic or Republican do we live our lives; as Christians we are to be devoted to the things of God.
So, why am I a Republican? I think the woman was right in observing that the philosophy of the Democratic Party has shifted radically away from God, demonstrated in the 2012 Convention. That would trouble me, if I were a Democratic.The Democratics insist upon abortion, which is killing a living baby in the womb. Murder breaks God’s clear command. (As an Illinois senator, Obama insisted on passing a law that mandates the immediate death of any baby that survives an attempted abortion. That is infanticide.) How can a Christian accept that? Homosexual activism pervades the Democratic platform, insisting that it be recognized as acceptable and taught in the classroom as a normal lifestyle. While society may accept anything as conventional (as did the Roman society), a Christian has to wonder how that squares with the Biblical insistence that calls homosexuality a perversion that must not be practiced or celebrated. Endorsing sexual perversion as a “civil right” is twisted logic on the one hand and the endorsement of sin, on the other.
No. Set aside the Biblical mandates, Obama also wishes to remove America from its own Constitution and the rule of Law. In Obama’s first two years, the Democratic-led govt inserted itself into the private world of banking and free-enterprise, taking ownership away from the company and its obligation to stockholders and putting ownership into the hands of the workers. Nationalizing industry is a socialism known as fascism, made famous by Adolf Hitler. Trillions (literally, not an exaggeration) of dollars were moved to pay for govt and union pension plans and funneled into other programs that were pay-off for political support–seen esp in the “alternative energy” sector, most of which filed for bankruptcy shortly thereafter. Obama rewarded his fellow support groups and used regulations to punish his enemies. He targeted the take over the insurance agencies with his “affordable insurance” plan. The passage of Obamacare, in turn, crippled our economy. Businesses scaled back their labor force (fired, retired, or laid-off) and scaled back their plans for future growth and development, not knowing what regulations, fines, penalties, taxes and fees would be forthcoming. All this massive unemployment and economic stagnation remains a plague to this day. Welfare roles swelled under Obama and consecutive months of double-digit unemployment reached a level unprecedented in our nation’s history.
No, a Christian can be a Democratic or a Republican or a Libertarian–or even a Communist (although that would be the height of irony, since Communism rejects the idea of there even being a God). Whatever.
If you voted for Obama, you could still (theoretically :-)) be a good person, regardless of what party you belong.
One thing is certain, Obama was elected and he intends to transform our country away from our nation’s constitutionally established Republic into a socialist state. (Yes, anticipate that with a Democratic / Socialist election in 2014, there will be a movement to replace our constitution with another.) And so our nation will be transformed, as Obama promised, into the dystopia he envisions.
So, the country continues to be divided against itself. Not favored by the majority of Christians, in my estimation, he is still favored by many. He is welcomed by the masses and merchants who will benefit from his give-away programs and favoritism. He will be feared and despised by all the workers and businessmen who are burdened by his mandates. Time will tell how our nation fares and how he will be regarded by posterity. My guess is that neither report will be good.
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November 19, 2012 at 5:58 pm
Cal
Wow, it looks like a lot of thought went into the forming of your views. That’s what we need—Christians who give time and effort to finding the will of God for all things. You have lots of good stuff in there, Ezra.
I’ve run into quite a few people who claim that the Democratic Party cares more for the poor. However, the following info from http://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/18-congregations/41-new-study-shows-trends-in-tithing-and-donating?q=tithing+2007 tells a different story. I think I could put the following within quotation marks but because I’m not totally positive that it is all word-for-word, I will leave out the quotation marks (emphasis is mine):
Whether they believe in the principle of tithing or not, few Americans give away that much money. In 2007, the research revealed that just 5% of adults tithed.
Not surprisingly, some population groups were more likely than others to have given away at least ten percent of their income. Among the most generous segments were evangelicals (24% of whom tithed); CONSERVATIVES (12%); people who had prayed, read the Bible and attended a church service during the past week (12%); charismatic or Pentecostal Christians (11%); and registered REPUBLICANS (10%).
Several groups also stood out as highly unlikely to tithe: people under the age of 25, atheists and agnostics, single adults who have never been married, LIBERALS, and downscale adults. One percent or less of the people in each of those segments tithed in 2007.
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November 15, 2012 at 9:29 pm
ezra
A shorter version, for brevity.
We all belong to the Devil and are party to his schemes, until delivered from that tyranny of evil by the blood of Jesus Christ. Let’s trust that we are saved by God’s grace, through faith in Jesus, as Scripture declares. Trust God, not your agency, for salvation. Only in Christ are we free from the world and the grasp of Satan.
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November 16, 2012 at 9:27 am
graceforgrace
Hi Ezra,
You said a lot of things that are important to consider.
One thing I would add to this comment is that we should use our agency to give our will over to God and when we do that, we will truly be set free.
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November 19, 2012 at 6:04 pm
Cal
I’ll second that, graceforgrace. It sounds like Ezra is a Calvinist. Information I’ve gathered says that Calvinism is becoming less and less popular. I think that’s because the body of Christ is growing in knowledge (revelation knowledge) as we approach the second coming of our precious Savior.
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November 16, 2012 at 10:06 am
JR
Good grief! The Democratic Party is not Satan’s plan. There are some Church members who believe it though, and believe that a member who is a Democrat is not a worthy member. I keep reading about Obama giving away stuff. Someone please be specific. How in the world is Obama going to replace our current Constitution?! He can’t. Where do you people get this stuff from? Stupid stuff like this was said when he was first elected and nothing happened. Corporate welfare exists too. The wealthy get handouts too. Congress is corrupt, regardless of party. People should be more worried about what Congress does, how corrupt it is, how campaign finance needs to be reformed and made transparent, for all branches of government. People need to be concerned with how lobbyists help form/write and pass bills/laws/legislation to the detriment of the citizens of this country. This is supposed to be a government of the people but the people don’t get heard. Only those with money get heard and have access to our representatives. We need watch dog groups over those at the top, like the General who lost a star for spending government money on extravagant personal use If anyone of a lesser rank did that they would be busted a rank or dishonorably discharged.
It is sad that employers can’t do right by their employees and blame politics for the reason to lay people off and cut benefits. The backlash against common workers is because Obama is soooo hated and no one can articulate why they hate him. He certainly is not the first President to help the poor working slobs like me. People are greedy, selfish and only care about what is in it for them which started in the 1980’s and is why we are in this mess. We have lost our understanding that all need to prosper, that we need to help each other prosper because there is then more to go around and everyone wins. But no one wants to help the next guy. People fail to grasp that we are all interconnected whether we like it or not.
And those who say it is wrong for LDS people to be Democrats: that is being narrow minded, closed minded, self righteous, bigoted, small minded thinking. News flash: this country is already socialistic, not a true democracy.
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November 19, 2012 at 6:09 pm
Cal
JR, do you spend much time in the Scriptures or in prayer? There is nothing in the world that compares to living in the presence of God.
I do agree with one thing you said—”People are greedy, selfish and only care about what is in it for them.”
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November 16, 2012 at 10:12 am
wilt
No, President Obama is not a socialst. He is not a liberal. He is moderate-left at best. He loves the constitution – just not some folks interpretation of same. The Teapublicans and other Reactionary Right folks seek to define left – middle – right with them as a ‘middle.” Nope.
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November 17, 2012 at 4:31 am
wonderdog
God is a libertarian. He gives you the freedom to make your own choice.
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November 19, 2012 at 8:27 pm
graceforgrace
Wonderdog,
So my next post should be titled “Gary Johnson is God’s president!”? : )
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November 17, 2012 at 2:06 pm
JR
For those that don’t know: Elder Marlin Jensen is a Democrat, so was James E. Faust. Elder Jensen said it is time for the members of the Church to quit saying a Mormon who is a Democrat can not be a good Mormon, said in an interview in 1998. The Church has stated that good and moral values compatible with the Gospel are in various parties.
If it is so wrong for members to be Democrat’s then we need to hear it from the Prophet.
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November 17, 2012 at 10:37 pm
graceforgrace
JR,
I noticed that Larry Echohawk gave a talk in conference this past session and he is a Democrat as well. He served for Obama in his administration before being called as a General Authority for the LDS church.
I doubt the prophet would ever come out and say that we all need to belong to a certain political party. Unless a party was so corrupt and many members were being deceived or something.
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November 19, 2012 at 6:11 am
Ken
In 1998 the Church said it had no problem with Democrats and would prefer more of their members sided with Democratics. In a front page Salt Lake Tribune Sunday morning article based on an interview conducted at Church headquarters, Marlin Jensen, President of the First Quorum of Seventy’s was quoted as saying, “What this church needs is more Democrats.” In an effort to follow the brethren, I am pleased to report all four of my children are registered Democrats and as best I can tell, all four joined their spouses in voting to reelect Barack Obama earlier this month.
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November 19, 2012 at 6:27 pm
Cal
I’m not going to say that someone who votes liberally (not meaning more than once per election 🙂 —you know what I mean) is not a good Mormon or a good non-Mormon Christian. Isaiah was a good prophet, yet after he saw the Lord seated on a throne (Isaiah 6:1), he cried, “Woe is me. I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips” (Isaiah 6:5, NIV).
However, when you hear a report that 80% of self-identified born-agains voted for Romney, as I heard, it tells you something. (Love ya, Ken 🙂 .)
All that being said, in the coming years I’m going to pray for Obama, and most of all for Christians to become more like Christ.
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November 19, 2012 at 5:19 am
Aaron
I think it would be nice if just for a brief moment we could ditch the America-centric view of the world so common in the church and consider the possibility that God cares about all countries and all peoples. If we stopped using a narrow American political definition to judge our brother’s worthiness, the world and the church might be better places.
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November 19, 2012 at 5:53 am
Ken
How dare you express such a radical view Aaron! Careful, people might accuse you of being a Christian.
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November 19, 2012 at 9:24 am
rogina
Bottom line if you are a Christian you will want to act like one.. thinking abortion is ok and it is ok for a man to marry a man.. is not Christian!!!!! its all in the book called the Bible!!!! no debat needed just read it!!!!
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November 19, 2012 at 12:27 pm
Rob Osborn
A lot of these issues with politics and agency are heated issues because of the basic misinterpretation of what Satan’s plans really were. YES it is true Satan sought to destroy the agency of man. He still seeks that destruction. The question comes down to how he was or how he does accomplish that. Many have said through the years that communism, socialism, etc. is Satan’s plan. But, that is not wholly true. We must go back and find out what is really going on.
In the premortal council Lucifer offered to be the only begotten and save all that is required of him to save. But, this of course was his lie, he had no intentions of saving man at all. Remember that the Lord is reminding Moses that Lucifer was a liar when he said what he said about being the savior to save all mankind. We tend to jump to erronious conclusions because we misinterpret the verses to believe Lucifer was telling the truth and that somehow he was going to force us to be saved by taking away choice to choose evil. This is in great error though and it all hinges off of what was and is really going on.
From the beginning Satan has laid the pkan to enslave God’s children in the chains of hell and also to destroy Gods kingdom. How did Satan seek to destroy our agency? By getting us to sin. As we sin we lose our agency- it gets destroyed. Supposing Lucifer did get his way to become the only begotten son, not only would he have a body and power over death, he wouldnt have redeemed men from their lost and fallen state. Had this been the case, Gids plans woyld have been eternally frustrated and by design, he would have literally destroyed Gods kingdom.
We must realize this one fact- It never was or is Satans plan to save everyone. That much is a pure lie! Thus, it is also then true that Satan doesnt use a system of forced obedience. That too is a pure lie.This takes us then to the true issue of politics and just where and how Satan works.
The basic principles of both communism and socialism, or hiw some interpret administrations like Obamas are not inherrintly evil in and of themselves. The social state created by systems are not evil. Its who is in charge and how they misuse their power that is or can be evil. Take Obamacare for example- sure, ir may not be the perfect setup for healthcare across the board but Satan isnt behind this pkan I can guarentee it! Since when did or does Satan wish for people to be healthy, especially the poor in society? Satan has a long track record of intentionally shunning the poor, the unhealthy, etc….
Look at the fruits of ones works.
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November 19, 2012 at 6:39 pm
Cal
I finally read graceforgrace’s article.
One of the questions was:
“Is it right to combine religious belief with political views?”
I just had to answer that, since I feel so strongly. I have read that the Civil War came about, and consequently the blacks were freed, BECAUSE THE CHURCH WAS SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THE INJUSTICES. YOU BET we should combine religious belief with political views.
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December 31, 2012 at 7:22 am
willie t. Ribs
THE GREAT DEMOCRAP PARTY..QUEERS.LESBOS..NEGROS(78%crime)tax and spend on me people..transvesdikes.anti-god people..unborn baby killers.welfare queens..food-stamp junkys..gov.-whores..socialist.liers of news media..ileagal wet-backs..HELLS AWAITIN…
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February 18, 2013 at 7:42 am
We Need more Mormon Democrats « Grace for Grace
[…] November, I wrote a post entitled ”The Democrat Party is Satan’s Plan?” and relayed an experience I had in Sunday School class with conservative members openly […]
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