Baptisms for the Dead have been a part of the Mormon church almost from the beginning. For those who are not familiar with the Mormon view of baptisms for the dead feel free to review this link for articles and scriptural references on baptisms for the dead. Here is a very short history on where Baptisms for the Dead originated:
Joseph Smith had received a vision of the celestial kingdom in which he saw his brother Alvin, who had died before Joseph had received the gold plates (see D&C 137). Joseph was surprised to see Alvin in the celestial kingdom, because Alvin had not been baptized before he died. The Lord explained to Joseph that all people who would have received the gospel, been baptized, and lived righteously if they had been given the opportunity will be able to be in the celestial kingdom (see D&C 137:7). Joseph later learned that baptisms for the dead could be done vicariously, using people on the earth as proxies.
Recently there was an article that covered members of the Jewish community being upset with the LDS church because an LDS member had done what is called “baptisms for the dead” in a Mormon temple for a holocaust victim. According to the article the LDS member who did the baptisms had seriously violated the church’s policy on baptizing deceased members of the Jewish faith as there had been an agreement between top Jewish and Mormon leaders.
If this LDS member is like me, he never heard anything about an apparent agreement between the Jews and Mormons not to have deceased members of the Jewish faith get proxy baptisms.
Some members of the Jewish community were outraged and suggested that the Mormon church should do away with baptisms for the dead. This sentiment is also found within members of the Catholic church and other Evangelical churches.
Personally, I highly doubt that the Mormon church would do away with baptisms for the dead. It is one of the key aspects of the religion.
Furthermore, I don’t see the reason why members of other faiths are so opposed to baptisms for the dead. The way I see it, if they don’t believe in baptisms for the dead, then it is irrelevant if the Mormons do it in their temples.
What are your thoughts?
Grace for Grace 
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March 1, 2012 at 8:04 pm
ezra
Mormons can do as they please; but it is contrary to Christian teaching:
1 ) Salvation is a gift of God, but it is mediated only through faith in Christ.
John 3:16 – For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever would believe in him would not perish, but have everlasting life.
Ephesians 2:8-9 reads, “For by GRACE you have been saved through FAITH; and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God; not as result of WORKS, so that no one may boast.
2) Redemption is only from God to the individual, not one individual on behalf of another.
Psalm 49:7 No one can ever buy back another person or pay God a ransom for his life.
3) Salvation is a matter of receiving spiritual life before death; after death, there is no changing the judgment; this is the “eternal death.”
Hebrews 9:27 “It is appointed for men to die once, but after this the
judgment.”
“Seek the Lord while he may be found; call upon him while he is near.” (Isaiah 55:6).
4) Salvation only comes via Jesus Christ, true God and true man.
Acts 4: 1-31. Key Verse 4:12. “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men
5) There is only ONE mediator between God and man, not many:
Acts 4: 1-31. Key Verse 4:12. “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.
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March 1, 2012 at 8:11 pm
ezra
Note: the last Scripture should read:
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
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March 3, 2012 at 7:56 am
Cal
Graceforgrace said, “The way I see it, if they [other faiths] don’t believe in baptisms for the dead, then it is irrelevant if the Mormons do it in their temples.”
I see it that way, too. It never occurred to me to be personally upset that an ancestor of mine might be baptized by proxy in an LDS Temple. If they dug him out of the grave to do it, as one of graceforgrace’s sentences implies, that might be another matter, however!
Concerning the supposed need to be baptized, Mark 16:16 says, “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved,” but it doesn’t say that “whoever is not baptized will be condemned.”
Rather, it goes on to say, “Whoever does not believe will be condemned.” The Bible repeatedly says that God accepts us by faith. It is an active faith that saves us, but one person’s faith manifests itself one way and another person’s faith manifests another way.
If someone says we must be baptized in order to be included in the highest kingdom, then someone else could just as easily say we have to love our neighbor as we love ourselves to be included in the highest kingdom. However, if we say perfect love is required, no one would ever make it. No one is morally perfect, not even those who have the Moral One in them. We are only on the way to perfection.
Concerning Ezra’s implication that the LDS falls short of Christianity because of their error on baptism, I’d say that if you tell someone that to climb a tree you had to (1) climb from limb to limb starting at the bottom and (2) yell, “I’m a monkey,” every 30 seconds, the someone who takes your instructions to heart is going to make it to the top of the tree even though he did something extra that he didn’t need to do.
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March 6, 2012 at 9:04 pm
graceforgrace
Hi Cal,
You are correct that the Bible states one is saved by faith. However, the Bible also states baptism is essential for salvation as well. Here’s an excerpt from the LDS Bible Dictionary on Bapstism:
Baptism is not optional if one wishes the fullness of salvation. Jesus said a person must be born of water and of the Spirit (John 3:3–5). When he sent the twelve apostles forth to teach the gospel he told them that whosoever believed and was baptized would be saved; and whosoever did not believe would be damned (Mark 16:16). Jesus himself was baptized “to fulfil all righteousness” (Matt. 3:15; 2 Ne. 31:4–11). But the Pharisees, being unwilling to accept the gospel, “rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized” (Luke 7:30).
Therefore, the Bible contradicts itself on the necessity of Baptism.
For LDS, this is one of the reasons why the Book of Mormon is scriptural and clarifies truths found in the Bible. In the Book of Mormon there are a few scriptures that also verify bapstism as being essential for salvation:
Moroni 8:10: behold I say unto you that this thing shall ye teach—repentance and baptism unto those who are accountable and capable of committing sin; yea, teach parents that they must repent and be baptized, and humble themselves as their little children, and they shall all be saved with their little children.
2 Nephi 31:17-18: For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and abaptism by water; and then cometh a bremission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost….And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life…
This is why Mormons are so serious about doing baptisms for the dead: to give everyone a chance to have the opportunity because we believe it is essential for salvation.
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March 7, 2012 at 8:35 am
Cal
Hi graceforgrace,
Thanks for your info.
I had never thought of Luke 7:30 in relation to this issue. My NIV Study Bible says in connection with Luke 7:30, “Tax collectors had shown their willingness to repent by accepting John’s baptism, whereas the Pharisees showed their rejection of God’s message by refusing to be baptized.” You agree with that, except you take it a step further, if I understand you correctly.
You’re saying the Father can’t or won’t remit (forgive) our sins until we’ve been baptized, is that right?
I’m looking at the “Gospel Principles” chapter on baptism even now. It says repentance and faith are steps to baptism. You are saying that the actual forgiveness (cancelling, washing away) of our sins cannot take place in the mind of God until baptism as also taken place.
2 Nephi 31:17-18 is quite explicit and helps explain why the LDS believes as they do on baptism.
How does the LDS deal with the thief on the cross, who, we presume, didn’t have a chance to be baptized? I think I know the answer—he was forgiven in the spirit world when someone was baptized for him on earth, right?
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March 7, 2012 at 11:35 am
graceforgrace
Hi Cal,
I would think that most LDS would answer your question the same way you did.
As for God forgiving sins without being baptized, I’m not God, but I’m sure he would forgive our sins if we were repentant, even without baptism.
Keep in mind, for LDS the word “saved” means something different than what most Christians interpret it as. For LDS, one isn’t “saved” until after judgement and assignment to a kingdom.
The way most Christians interpret “saved” such as a born again experience, knowing Jesus, etc. is what LDS (in my opinion) commonly call having a “spiritual experience” or “feeling the Spirit”. In LDS circles, you’ll hear “I felt the Spirit” a lot. I think it’s a matter of semantics, really.
Does this make sense? Do you have any objections or anything to add?
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March 3, 2012 at 7:08 pm
Jettboy
I don’t have a problem with the Catholic or Evangelicals keeping the records away from Mormons if they can or want to. What I do have a problem with is, like some Jews, telling Mormons what they can do and believe.
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March 4, 2012 at 12:10 am
Bradley
Thanks for reminding me, I was going to have bagels and locs.
If the jews are upset now, wait till they see how many of these baptisms will be performed after the Second Coming.
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March 5, 2012 at 8:00 am
Ken
Part of baptism is a prayer with specific words said on behalf of that person whether they are dead or alive. As was pointed out, the bodies of these persons are not dug up, so in effect all that is really being done by the Church is a prayer on behalf of that person which happens to include a ritual, of which the deceased person is not physically included.
So if a Catholic or a protestant or someone of the Jewish faith prayed for my sole after I died, in the hopes that their pray may somehow be of benefit to me in the hereafter, and even if they included some ritual practice of their faith would I be offended? No, especially where no offense was intended. I would express gratitude for their concern for my eternal fate regardless if I believed it would have any effect or not.
I have discussed religion with those of different faiths in which we have not agreed on each point of doctrine, whereupon at the conclusion they have offered to pray for me. I graciously accept this offer. I know that their prayer is not for me to find greater strength in my own convictions, but rather that perhaps I might have greater clarity to see things more as they do. Am I offended by this? No, I am grateful that someone would care enough about me to take time to include me in their prayers. That is an expression of love and nothing less.
I think if all religions prayed for and did what they felt would benefit those of other faiths, rather than concluding that they are going to cast off if they don’t change, it would be a good thing. So long as the only inclusion of that person is their name, then no harm is done, just an expression of goodwill toward others. That’s a good thing, isn’t it?
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March 6, 2012 at 8:49 pm
graceforgrace
Amen brother Ken!
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March 5, 2012 at 6:57 pm
Cal
Yeah, I’d say so.
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March 7, 2012 at 7:23 pm
Free
In my oppinion you should not be doing it! But God is only going to judge that person on what they do or do not do wrong! So if the LDS is doing something for another person that is not right it is only going to get them in trouble with God not the dead person! So they should just let them do it! I to do not have the same believes but I have enough since to know that God is not going to punish me for what someone else might do on my behave when I am gone!
My only complaint is when you here they have done it for people like Hitler and Anne Frank in the same sentence, yea yea let God pass judgement and he will, so then let Hitler ask for his own forgiveness.
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March 9, 2012 at 7:32 pm
Cal
Hello again, grace.
You know, like I do, that understanding each others’ definitions is an important part of communication between our groups.
You said, “As for God forgiving sins without being baptized, I’m not God, but I’m sure he would forgive our sins if we were repentant, even without baptism.”
That’s interesting and nice to hear. An LDS missionary said the same thing to me about 6 weeks ago. (My wife and I had been meeting with them and the other Mormons they sometimes brought with them.)
You said, “Keep in mind, for LDS the word ‘saved’ means something different than what most Christians interpret it as.”
Yes, I did know that. I noticed, however, that the LDS book “True To the Faith” includes 5 additional definitions for the word “salvation,” and those other definitions line up with evangelical definitions!
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March 11, 2012 at 9:24 pm
graceforgrace
Hi Cal,
If I ever make it out to NH, I’ll have to come visit you. You’re a good dude.
Can you refresh my memory on the 5 definitions in the True to the Faith pamphlet?
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March 10, 2012 at 11:42 am
Doug
How dare one religious group attack another for their religious practices.
However, growing up in the Northeast I know many Jewish people recoil at the thought of baptism in part because of the forced baptisms performed by the Roman Catholic Church in the 1500’s.
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March 11, 2012 at 9:22 pm
graceforgrace
Hi Doug,
I am absolutely positive that most protestant denominations have very adamant feelings that go way back to the times when the Catholic church was doing pretty shady stuff and proclaiming it as doctrine. Understanding that, I can see how a Christian religion would be hesitant if not completely unacceptable of the Mormon view of baptism being a necessity.
How many other Christian denominations believe the same way Mormons do: that baptism is essential?
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March 11, 2012 at 1:16 pm
Taylor Johnson
I think concerns amongst non-LDS members extend to other areas beyond proxy Baptisms. Family History, and keeping records of Ancestry can upset many, including my Wife (Non-LDS). She is convinced that the origins of Ancestry.com have Mormon origin, as based in Utah. Were the lists compiled used to make cash? Baptisms by proxy may indeed upset not only another faith but non-LDS family connected with the deceased. I think the Jewish have every right to express a view, as does anyone.
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March 11, 2012 at 9:19 pm
graceforgrace
Hi Taylor,
Freedom of speech, for sure. Everyone has a right whether we agree with it or not. How do you think the LDS church should handle the situation?
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March 13, 2012 at 7:19 am
Cal
graceforgrace said, “If I ever make it out to NH, I’ll have to come visit you. You’re a good dude.”
LOL. At age 53, people don’t call me a dude very often! Anyway, yeah, that would be neat to meet you.
You asked, “Can you refresh my memory on the 5 definitions in the True to the Faith pamphlet?”
OK. “True to the Faith” actually comprises a 190-page glossary that a Mormon gave me during one of my visits to the local ward. Beginning on page 150 are the following meanings for “salvation”:
*Salvation from physical death
*Salvation from sin
*Being born again
*Salvation from ignorance
*Salvation from the second death
*Eternal life, or Exaltation
The book elaborates on each meaning. (Published in 2004, I find the book a valuable resource.)
Under the subheading “Answering the Question ‘Have You Been Saved,'” it says,
“In Romans 10:9-10, the words “saved” and “salvation” signify a covenant relationship with Jesus Christ. Through this covenant relationship, we are assured salvation from the eternal consequences of sin if we are obedient. Every faithful Latter-day Saint is saved according to this meaning. We have been converted to the restored gospel.”
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March 13, 2012 at 9:03 pm
graceforgrace
Hi Cal,
I’ll have to check that pamphlet out.
What are your feelings about those definitions?
P.S. I call all my friends dudes no matter their age…you’re not old enough for this one, but if they’re real old, I’ll call them “old dudes”. West coast lingo I guess…we’re pretty laid back out here!
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March 14, 2012 at 8:44 am
Cal
So I’m not an old dude yet! Phew!
I think I accurately represent charismatics and evangelicals in saying I like all those definitions except the last one.
To me, eternal life is something we Christians (including Mormon Christians such as yourself) already possess as well as something we will possess in much greater concentration after judgment day.
I also believe in exaltation in that we will reign with Christ (2 Timothy 2:12).
I just don’t believe someone has to be baptized by Mormon authorities to make it to a celestial kingdom. In that sense I don’t go along with the restored gospel.
I have no reason to doubt that God has called you to have this website, though. In many ways, you’re a good example for me to follow. I’ll give God credit for your integrity, as I’m sure you do.
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March 14, 2012 at 8:39 pm
graceforgrace
Hi Cal,
I appreciate your contributions.
Something that confuses me with Christian denomonations is that some require baptism (I think) and others don’t. What are the reasons for this do you think?
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March 15, 2012 at 8:10 am
Cal
Yeah, some stress the importance of it more than others. However, I’ve never been in or heard of a church that doesn’t encourage people to be baptized once they have made Jesus their Lord.
I do remember walking into a church that was apparently on the same end of the spectrum as the LDS. On the wall was a framed document containing about 6 different Bible versions of the same verse you guys use to support the necessity of baptism. I think it was Acts 2:38: “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.”
Clearly, they had received flak for their stance!
So to answer your question, my guess is that the reasons for differences among denominations on the question of baptism have to do partly with Acts 2:38 and other verses like it that tend to lead us to believe baptism precedes remission (forgiveness) while other verses just say “believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved” (Acts 16:31, KJV).
Another reason, for sure, is that “now we see through a glass, darkly” (1 Cor. 13:12). (If it wasn’t for verses such as 1 Cor. 13:12, I might go crazy trying to figure out who is right.)
Have a blessed day, my friend!
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March 15, 2012 at 8:40 pm
graceforgrace
Hi Cal,
Thanks for your insight. I wasn’t aware that most of Christianity denied Baptism as a saving ordinance. I thought the Baptists were pretty pro-baptism.
So really, it’s only the Mormons and Catholics who have ordinances for salvation then, I guess.
For Mormons, the Book of Mormon helps make it so we don’t have to see through the glass as darkly regarding the steps for salvation. They are: first, faith, second, repentance, third, baptism, fourth receiving the Holy Ghost, and finally enduring to the end (this is according to the Book of Mormon). This helps clarify and confirm the Bible verses that state Baptism is essential.
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March 15, 2012 at 9:08 pm
Doug
To answer the question about churches that hold to baptism as being part of our salvation-the Church of Christ holds to this. Growing up in my church our pastor’s wife came from that denomination and told a funny story about how people would come down to accept Christ and literally run and jump in head first into the baptismal font out of fear that they might drop dead without getting baptized and go to Hell. My understanding of baptism is it is a visible “sign” of what has taken place in the believers life. God bless!
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March 16, 2012 at 8:38 am
Cal
That’s funny, Doug! I believe it was a Church of Christ building wall on which I saw the framed listing of verses.
GraceforGrace, to clear up confusion, didn’t you say earlier, “As for God forgiving sins without being baptized, I’m not God, but I’m sure he would forgive our sins if we were repentant, even without baptism”?
How does that fit with your assertion that baptism is a saving ordinance? When you say “saving,” are you referring to entering the celestial kingdom?
I’m guessing you’re going to say that one who dies in between the second step to salvation (repentance) and the third step (baptism) will benefit in a temporary holding place in the spirit world but will not be able to enter the celestial kingdom. Maybe just the middle kingdom?
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March 18, 2012 at 4:38 pm
graceforgrace
Hi Cal,
You bring up some good points to consider.
Personally, I think that God is a gracious God and if someone who lived on earth and died before being able to get baptized…they’ll either be saved or they’ll have the baptisms done for them (proxy).
Doug’s comment about people running to the font to get baptized ASAP is a bit of an extreme example, but one that I’m sure many people do simply out of fear they’re going to be thrust down to Hell if they don’t get baptized before they die.
Keep in mind, this is my personal views…not necessarily the official LDS view, but I believe that people of all faiths will have a fair shot at hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ in it’s fullness. I believe that all religions have at least some element to truth and that God will judge us according to the knowledge we’ve been blessed with in this life.
If the person wasn’t baptized or even had the chance to show faith in Jesus in this life due to the country they lived in, or simply because they never heard of Jesus, they will get a chance to in the after-life. They will also have the opportunity to accept baptism that someone else has done for them as well.
There is a scripture at the end of the Doctrine and Covenants that discusses how people who died in this life without having heard of Jesus get preached to in the spirit world. Here’s the link to the scripture: D&C 138
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March 16, 2012 at 8:38 am
Cal
If so, I’m taking up diving lessons. 🙂
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March 19, 2012 at 7:34 am
Cal
Good morning, GraceforGrace,
I think you extended an important truth when you said, “God will judge us according to the knowledge we’ve been blessed with in this life.”
One could get lost in all the legalize of what would happen if someone does this and what would happen if someone does that. If we seek the Lord with all our heart, mind, and strength, we’ll end up on top somehow. God will figure it out!
God’s best to you & yours, including your new little one. I hope he’s doing well.
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March 19, 2012 at 5:31 pm
graceforgrace
Amen to that, Cal!!!
Thanks for the well wishes for the family too. The little guy is 7 months old now. Just getting over a cold, but back on track.
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