Excommunication is defined by the LDS church as “A disciplinary process used only in extreme situations. This includes removal of an individual’s name from the records of the Church“.
From my experience (which isn’t that extensive) with excommunication, one is removed for serious, repeated sexual sins or by having a very rebellious attitude towards the Church of Jesus Christ.
Throughout the years, I’ve often heard LDS members of the church say that the worst thing you can do is be excommunicated because the gift of the Holy Spirit is removed from you and you’re left to your own devices.
I believe that that statment is a falsehood designed by Satan to put despair into the hearts of those who are excommunicated.
I’ll share a story with you as to why I believe it is false that the Lord removes his Spirit from those who are excommunicated.
We were alone in a room in a church building. The young man in front of me had just been excommunicated from the church and was sobbing in front of me. I was the Elders Quorum President (mens group leader) at the time and I didn’t have answers for him that seemed to help. He asked questions such as: Why did I choose to do the things I did? How can I gain membership back into the church? Did God abandon me? Will I have the Holy Spirit and strength to re-commit myself to the Savior and His gospel?
As he cried and shared his feelings with me, I prayed silently “God help me help him feel your love and give him answers”. Suddenly I remembered something I had done numerous times on my mission with investigators of the gospel.
I looked at him and told him I didn’t have the answers to his questions, or the ability to heal his heart and offer forgiveness and healing for his sins, but Jesus did.
We dropped to our knees and I offered the first prayer. I opened my heart to God thanking Him for the blessing of the gospel and for the Atonement of Jesus. I asked Him for guidance and direction for this young man and that He would pour His love into the young man’s heart.
Next, the young man prayed. I have seldom heart a more honest and sincere prayer as I did that day. As the young man prayed, the Holy Spirit came into both of our hearts and we both knew the young man was forgiven. We both knew the compassion and mercy God has for us when we are humble and come to Him offering our hearts to Him.
We both cried and were both strengthened in our relationship with the Lord.
One year later, I was able to witness and assist this young man as he was re-baptized into the Church of Jesus Christ.
If this young man had believed the lie that the Spirit couldn’t be with him after he was excommunicated, he would have lost complete faith in God and never experienced the love of Jesus in such an amazing way. He would have let go and never come back.
For those of you who know someone who has been excommunicated I encourage you to reach out to them as Jesus would and show an increase in love. Don’t judge them or look down on them or think they are not capable of feeling the Lord’s Spirit. If you do judge them, you’re commiting a sin and have need of repentance!
For those who may be excommunicated, I know that God loves you and that you can still feel the Lord’s love and He will increase his love and spiritual protection for you as you open your heart in prayer, read his Holy Word, and remain humble.
Grace for Grace 
24 comments
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June 20, 2011 at 9:50 pm
Howard
Yep it’s total B.S. alright I was exed and the Spirit stayed with me through many years of beer drinking womanizing pornography finally re-baptism and He’s still with me today. The church does not have a monopoly on the Spirit nor does it broker His services.
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June 21, 2011 at 6:11 am
SilverRain
The ordinance of receiving the GIFT of the Holy Ghost is removed, which is why they have to be rebaptized and confirmed. That doesn’t mean the Holy Ghost can’t speak to that person. They still have the ability to feel the Spirit as anyone does.
I would think that is obvious.
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June 21, 2011 at 5:58 pm
ama49
“I would think that is obvious”
I wouldn’t assume that this is obvious. Throughout the years, I’ve heard members of the LDS church talk about people who have been excommunicated as if they are lesser and incapable of feeling God’s Spirit.
They can feel the spirit just as a member can through prayer, fasting, scripture study, etc.
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June 21, 2011 at 10:05 am
DaivdH
Amen.
While there is an institutionally imposed waiting period before Church discipline is lifted, there is not waiting period before one can turn toward God and receive God’s healing strength and spirit. Elder Ashton put it this way:
“Now as to the request of my friend, ‘What can I do while I’m waiting?’ Also from 3 Nephi we are given this warm invitation:
“‘Yea, verily I say unto you, if ye will come unto me ye shall have eternal life. Behold, mine arm of mercy is extended towards you, and whosoever will come, him will I receive; and blessed are those who come unto me’ (3 Ne. 9:14).
“This scripture indicates that in life there is no waiting period before we can come unto God. In our weakness we know where we can turn for strength. What good advice and wise direction for our lives can be gleaned through study of the scriptures! Self-esteem can be renewed and strength to do His will can be revived. People must always count more than programs.”
Marvin J. Ashton, “While They Are Waiting,” Ensign, May 1988, 62
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June 21, 2011 at 5:59 pm
ama49
David,
Thank you for stopping by and for that great reference!
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August 20, 2012 at 8:38 pm
jcee
I meant to say thanks for this ministering word
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August 21, 2012 at 9:42 am
graceforgrace
jcee,
You’re welcome for this and thank you for sharing your experience. Only you and God know how hard it must be, but also know how much He loves the repentant sinner!
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June 21, 2011 at 10:26 pm
ezra
Excommunication, as practiced among Christians, is the declaration to the person that they should not consider themselves part of the “Body of Christ.” They are to think of themselves no longer “in communion” with Christ because their lifestyle is not in keeping with the faith they supposedly profess. Some of you may wonder why the Church has “the right” to excommunicate; in fact, Jesus, in Matthew 18 makes it very clear that his followers not only have that right, but the responsibility to do this. Offenses should not be overlooked, Jesus said, but brought to the attention of the offender; if the brother listens and repents, there is forgiveness – “and you have won your brother.” But if the brother digs in, and if the offense is serious enough, there may be the need to take another person (or persons), to help the other see the nature of his offense. The purpose is two-fold, to solve the conflict, ideally, but also be a witness to the conflict-solving. If this step does not work, Jesus said, take it to the church. If the matter is unresolved there, that particular person should not be considered a part of the church, but considered to be like ” a pagan or a tax-collector.” This power to forgive or not forgive is connected with the death and resurrection of Jesus and with the blessing conveyed in and through the Holy Spirit. After the resurrection, Jesus “breathed on his disciples and said, ‘whosoever sins you forgive, they are forgiven them; whosoever sins you retain, they are retained.”
I mention all this to focus on how you referred to “the Holy Spirit” being “in one’s heart” in connection to one’s “excommunication.” In a sense, that statement is true. The Holy Spirit makes us holy, because he is the one who gives us faith. As Scripture says, “Without faith it is impossible to please God.” The Holy Spirit works through the Word to bring us faith (Romans); he also works through Baptism (Titus 3) and the Lord’s Supper (1 Cor 15). We call these things the “means of grace”–God always provides the means for us to come to faith and into a saving relationship with him.
When a person no longer listens to the Word of God and/or takes up an unholy lifestyle, he “grieves the Holy Spirit” and is no longer a man of faith. He no longer has a connection to Jesus Christ, who is “the Word of God, made flesh.” The work of God, as shown through Jesus, is always directed to bringing the offender back to a proper relationship with himself.
Thankfully, God is gracious and patient, not always treating us as we deserve. When Jesus said that the unrepentant person should be removed from the church and “treated as a pagan and a tax-collector,” he was not saying that the man was a lost cause. Quite the opposite: Jesus always extended a hand out to the pagan and the tax-collector. Excommunication seems like a harsh thing to do, but when the situation comes to this point, it is the proper thing to do.
In the instance you shared with us, Ama, you operated on behalf of Christ’s church to speak the word of forgiveness that needed to be spoken to the young man. This is what Jesus commanded and which St. Paul encouraged: Pronounce the word of forgiveness to the repentant sinner, welcome him back and rejoice. That, after all, is the purpose of the Gospel: to preach repentance and forgiveness of sins, in Jesus’ name.
EVERY repentant person is evidence of the work of the Holy Spirit; for it is the Holy Spirit who works to bring us back to faith. Impenitence shows a lack of faith; penitence shows the presence of faith. It wasn’t merely the ‘warm fuzzies” that brought the young man back to the Lord; it was the Lord having his way in the man’s life, speaking to his life of sin, to his stubborn heart, which called him away from the darkness of unbelief and from his sin. You were there for the same reason, I believe, to speak the Word of forgiveness, on the basis of the atoning blood of Jesus Christ shed on the cross, which still saves us. In truth, Ama, you may well have saved his life, spiritually and perhaps physically, when you spoke the clear word of forgiveness, for Christ’s sake.
Look at Judas, who was certainly remorseful of having “betrayed innocent blood,” and threw the money down at the feet of the chief priests, whose job it was to grant forgiveness. Although they were the established power to grant forgiveness, in God’s name, the only response was a callous, “What is that to us?” Failing their responsibility, Judas was open to Satan’s assaults and he felt the full weight of his sin. Without that word of forgiveness, there was no faith; no faith left Judas in a spiral of despair, which caused him to take his own life.
I found your words worth pondering; I hope my words grant you the same.
Blessings in Christ…
Ezra
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June 22, 2011 at 7:51 pm
ama49
Hi Ezra,
You did bring up some great points to consider. I do agree that members of Christ’s church need to stay close to the Spirit so they can discern if excommunication is indeed the route to go. If someone has removed themselves spiritually so far, as you suggested, excommunication can be a healing part of the repentance process. If the person who is excommunicated chooses to be humble and repent, he or she can fully participate in Christ’s mercy and forgiveness. In many cases, excommunication humbles the sinner and they realize just how dependant they are on Jesus for everything.
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June 21, 2011 at 11:14 pm
ezra
P.S. Do you suppose that a man who went whoring after women and drink and who “came back to the church” might yet be in his sin? It might be the case, if those things never troubled his soul and there was never repentance. Where there is no repentance, there is no gift of forgiveness, nor of the Holy Spirit.
““Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life” (Galatians 6:7-8).
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June 22, 2011 at 6:07 am
Howard
No ezra I am not still in sin but thanks for your concern brother today I follow the Spirit. Nice try putting the scriptures together like a jig saw puzzle sorry my experience doesn’t fit the puzzle or your frame of reference.
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June 22, 2011 at 9:30 pm
Cody
When I was facing my own excommunication, I worried about losing the Spirit. Now that I’ve been excommunicated, I think it’s a myth. I feel no loss of spirit at all. In fact, I actually feel like I’m more in tune with God. He has blessed me so much, and I am grateful for His everlasting mercy and love.
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June 25, 2011 at 10:59 pm
ama49
Hi Cody,
Thanks for stopping by. The way you write you make it sound that the excommunication was what is helping you feel more in tune with God. I’m not sure if that’s what you meant when you wrote it. What do you think is leading to you feeilng the Spirit of God in your life?
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June 25, 2011 at 10:31 pm
Glenn Smith
Let’s not forget the difference between the Holy Ghost , including the Gift of, and the Light of Christ which dwells in all men and women, encouraging them to do good. As SilverRain pointed out, the Holy Ghost visits whom He will, but does not stay constantly with those who’s baptismal covenants are not in play.
Oftimes, we confuse the Light of Christ with the Holy ghost. See LIghbt of Christ in the Bible Dictionary.
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June 25, 2011 at 10:50 pm
ama49
Hi Glenn,
I would be careful to claim monopoly on the Holy Ghost. I’ve seen many, many people who aren’t LDS who have the Spirit just as much or more so than baptized members. I think that people can have the Spirit with them just as frequently as those who are baptized. It is a matter of how close we are and what we are doing to develop our relationship with God…i.e. serving others, praying, scripture study, etc.
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June 26, 2011 at 10:06 pm
Howard
Glenn while it’s comforting to try to fit what you were taught in Sunday school around what you’re reading here my personal experience fits ama49’s comment and I second what he said. The Spirit has never withdrawn from me that I know of although I have withdrawn from Him on occasion and I suspect that is what actually happens to most people when they “loose” the spirit. I have tested this theory by asking people who think they lost it to go back to where they were spiritually even though they are still sinning and voila there He is. Telling people that they will loose the Spirit if they are unworthy becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
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June 26, 2011 at 11:14 pm
Cody
I don’t necessarily feel the excommunication itself is what causes me to feel closer to God. I think I just lived in the “Mormon box” for so long and only managed to see things from one perspective. Now that I’m on the “outside looking in” so to speak, I feel like I’m seeing the power of God’s love in a whole different way. I go to church now because I want to, not out of duty or obligation as I sometimes used to do, and I think that has drawn me closer to the Lord. I also feel that I appreciate God’s love more and am more in tune with Him because I realized that my excommunication had absolutely no effect on how He feels about me as His child. I don’t know, I just feel like I see things in a different instead of just in the way I was always taught, and I feel like it has opened my heart and eyes more. I don’t know if that makes any sense at all.
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June 29, 2011 at 8:14 pm
ama49
Hi Cody,
It makes complete sense. I think there is a tendency in the LDS Church (and other Christian churches) to think things have to be a certain way or else God shuns the sinner. The fact is, everyone is a sinner and God loves the repentant sinner who has a broken heart. Once our hearts are broken, then he can mold us into what He wants us to be as long as we’re willing.
Do you see yourself getting re-baptized then at some point?
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June 29, 2011 at 11:07 pm
Cody
I’m in a committed relationship with my partner, who I love very much. As long as it’s considered a sin to be with him, I don’t see myself getting re-baptized, and judging from the Church’s position, which isn’t likely to change, I suppose that means it is likely I will remain excommunicated for the rest of my life since I do not feel the need or desire to repent of something that does not feel wrong to me.
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July 4, 2011 at 7:41 am
Cal
Good discussion. Thanks.
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January 24, 2012 at 9:00 pm
arla hunt
I am a mother of a son who is going in to the church court system. I have cried and grieved so much wondering what I did to cause his weakness under pressure. What could I have done better to protect his spirit? I was sitting at the foot of the Christis on Temple Square in Salt Lake and the thought came into my mind..” He is being called on mission…He will be an undercover Mormon. Just like an under cover cop, he will reach people the church membership or the missionaries will never be able to reach. He just won’t wear the uniform”. Tonight, I cried again and so I typed into Google “Does God have a purpose for someone who has been excommunicated to do His will? Was it part of His plan? Did he know of it years ago? When my son was a year old I dreamed on several consecutive nights that he went down a hole in the roots of a tree and died. I reached out my hand but could not get a hold of him as he continued to crawl out of my sight. Was this the death I saw in my dream so many years ago? He never did anything wrong you would think a person would do if they were on the road to losing their testimony. He baptized 40 people on his mission and came home having done his duty to God. I was proud of his work and his life. This came out of the blue and has been a shock. I am taking anti depressants to cope and still can’t seem to stop having crying binges. I love this son with everything that is in me to love. He is a person of great kindness and goodness. I don’t know what is a head of him. I have turned him over to the Savior but still cry about everything,. I hope with all my heart that this was Gods plan. That He always knew it would happen. That his life will not be in vain. That righteousness will still be done as he lives his life. That God knew this would be part of his life’s plan for him. I hope so.
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August 20, 2012 at 8:30 pm
jcee
I was excommunicated after having an adultrous relationship which led to divorce. After 6 years have past i look back, still in love w/ God and knowing my need for him, and i’m thankful for the process. It helped me to learn not to be a respector of men, as alot of church folk are, and how to see the spirit of the pharisee (which many walk in) in Christians who lead but harbor secret sins and walk in the pride of their “biblical prowess”… excommunicating people who God knows and loves but they themselves don’t know or love (agape).
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February 27, 2013 at 10:33 pm
David Morris Morris
repentance is an ordinance as faith is the first, therefore without comfort which is administer by the Holy Ghost … Jesus Christ said the Comforter which is the Holy Ghost will teach you all things. we have to understand that the Gift of the holy ghost is given after baptism … Before i became a Mormon i was ask to read the Book of Mormon the promise left in Moroni 10 :4 states that we must pray with sincere heart with real intent having faith and he will manifest truth by the power of the Holy Ghost … >5 : and by the power of the holy ghost you may know the truth of all things … Without the Holy Ghost we would be lost am grateful for the scripture and prayer its the who comforts in our affliction and teaches us the way as Jesus Christ would… am grateful for this experience of Excommunication am learning to be like be like Jesus…
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March 3, 2013 at 8:19 am
graceforgrace
Hi David,
You have a very humble attitude and are a very good example for us. Thank you for your thoughts, testimony and scripture.
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