I was reading my Yahoo News this morning and came across a very interesting article called “What Happens When We Die?”.
In this article, Dr Sam Parnia describes a study he’s been conducting for the last 10 years on out of body experiences from his patients who come back to life after the body is clinically dead. He also describes how they conduct the study in a way so they know it’s not a figment of the people’s imagination, because they describe certain things in such detail after returning. For more information on his research, click here or visit this site.
This reminds me of a story of one of my relatives who died on the operating table and left the body. She described how free she felt and how good it felt to be free of pain. She then turned and saw her family crying and she felt that she wanted to return back to her body to help them. When she returned, pain instantly came over her again, but she described everything in precise detail: what the doctors were saying, her children and husband…everything.
Similar references are found in this interesting article and you can read it here.
Grace for Grace 
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September 24, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Dan
Fascinating article.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, i.e. the opposite of near death experiences, is a relatively new field of study about pre-birth experiences. Those would be situations where parents meet their children before they are born. Apparently, John Denver had one of those experiences.
Sarah Hinze, http://www.sarahhinze.com/ has done a fair amount of research on that subject.
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September 25, 2008 at 12:44 am
ama49
#2 Dan,
Wow. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing that!
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September 25, 2008 at 4:50 am
Mormon Heretic
This is on of my favorite topics. My brother passed away about 2 years ago, and I read 2 wonderful books which helped soothe some of my pain. Both deal with near-death experiences: “The Message” by Lance Richardson (a mormon), “90 minutes in Heaven” by Don Piper (a baptist? minister). Several years ago, I read “Return from Tomorrow” by George Ritchie who was not religious previous to his experience.
All 3 are outstanding books, and give some fascinating accounts. I loved them all.
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September 29, 2008 at 4:10 am
ama49
#3, MH
Thanks for stopping by and sharing that information. This is very interesting.
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October 4, 2008 at 12:06 am
ditchu
Wow,
Having had an NDE myself this kind-of resonates with me.
For anyone in doubt I will tell you that Death is not the end.
Even Einstine knew that matter and energy could not cease to exist, he found that one can change from one form to another but there was no end to it’s existance.
-D
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October 4, 2008 at 4:43 am
ama49
Hey Ditchu,
thanks for stopping by. Do you feel comfortable sharing your experience?
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October 6, 2008 at 5:24 am
ditchu
Not in an open Forum.
I did this once to the extent I thought I was confortable with and received much scorn and doubt. People sometimes have a very negative reaction with such a touchy subject and they give resistance to any ideas that may prepell them to shift their paradigms. I do not ask for others to change their world view upon hearing my experience but they preceive that I am trying to force a change.
I may, if prompted, share my sacred experience, but the open forums often leave me with the impression that I have cast my pearls before swine…
Sorry.
You should also note that I have some differing experiences than the usual tunnel with a light NDE but I do not attempt to discount those. My experience is no less real to me that I believe theirs is to them and in my understanding is that it each is a real experience, not just in someone’s head.
If Prompted to share may I contact you by email?
-D
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October 6, 2008 at 12:48 pm
GIS Chimp
Umm, all seems pretty anecdotal and non-scientific from this laypersons perspective. I know I wont’ be changing anyone else’s mind with my comments, nor will mine be changed by others’, but these all sound a lot like the experience one has when passing out owing to lack of oxygen to the brain. I don’t see how one jumps from this to an active God, a God-gene, etc. But that’s just me.
BTW, I was raised in a christian house, read the bible cover to cover multiple times, was steeped in the whole deal. So I’ve got that perspective covered, too. Just a passing comment. Like I said, no expectations of anyone really thinking this through based on this little bit of text. But I’d like to see both sides represented here, if allowable.
Thank you.
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October 8, 2008 at 1:46 am
Mormon Heretic
Ditchu,
I’d be curious to hear your experience too. If you like, you can email me at mormon heretic at gmail dot com. If not, I completely understand.
GIS Chimp,
Could you propose a scientific experiment that would convince you of a God, or near death experiences?
Let me propose a non-scientific experience, and please tell me how you would react. Let’s say you were to pass out due to lack of oxygen, and had a vision of your loved ones, where you knew they couldn’t see you, but you were trying to contact them.
Now, through the miracle of medicine, you are revived. Now let’s say that these loved ones remembered this experience, and you both remembered this vision. Now, obviously, this isn’t scientific, but would you be more open to the possibility? Or would you simply claim that both you and your loved ones had an amazing simultaneous hallucination? Please remember that your lack of oxygen may explain your hallucination, but how do you explain the loved one, who was fully conscious, having the same experience? Were they without oxygen too?
And if you had this experience, how would science confirm or disprove it?
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October 8, 2008 at 4:49 am
ditchu
What is science but learning from our sences. If we see light from a flame that is scientific evidance that the flame exists, no? Also there is the heat we can feal from the flame and we may be able to hear it hissing as it burns the wax of a candle. Is this not science? Then if we count this to be science or scientific evidance for the existance of the flame, it is based on our experience of that flame (sight, touch{heat}, and sound.) then what of the experience of Death/near Death: In such an experience we feel and see and hear, some taste, and smell. Is this not evidance of the existance of something beyond the Life experiences in this realm of contousness? More Philosophical is the question of Dreams, are they real? Science is not some mechnisim that you turn off if something challanges your preconceived world view, we cannot turn off our sences and we must know that our experiences are a part of reality or we deny reality all together.
I tell you the truth that there should be no fear in Death for it is not the end but any apprehention towards making that journey is due to the begining of a venture into some unkonwn. A man who tries to quantify life with science but is unable to, how can he understand death with this thinking.
-D
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October 8, 2008 at 5:53 am
ama49
Hi Ditchu,
I understand your concerns with sharing in the open forum. I’ve had that experience as well. If you would like to email me, you can. Do you already have my email?
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October 9, 2008 at 6:13 am
MH
I can understand GIS Chimp’s desire for some empirical evidence, and I think he/she has a valid point. But what I’m trying to say is this: how does one design an experiment to gather some sort of empirical evidence?
It sounds nice to say you want evidence, but there are limitations, and I think this one is a real tough one. One can use electricity, without completely understanding it, or being able to quantify how it works. Just because electricity is not completely understood, doesn’t nullify its existence.
One again, how does one empirically prove these experiences are real or fake? I don’t have a clue, but I’m open to ideas. Also, how does one explain a spiritual experience while fully conscious?
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October 10, 2008 at 4:16 am
ama49
#12
Good questions. You can’t explain it unless you’ve experienced it. Faith. It’s the evidence of things unseen but hoped for right?
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October 10, 2008 at 5:24 pm
ditchu
ama49,
Exactly. Thank you.
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October 11, 2008 at 5:37 pm
GIS Chimp
First, thank you for posting my response. I appreciate truly open dialogue, particularly from those with whom I obviously disagree. It is refreshing.
The “common” experience that near-death (that’s what it truly is – if you are truly “dead” you don’t revive) survivors recount is not outside the realm of evidentiary explanation. I mentioned the sensation of blacking out. Lack of oxygen to the brain acts on our sensory organs (eyes, etc.) and the sensation is very common. It seems logical, though I don’t have the medical or scientific credentials to speak to this, that a severe lack of oxygen, such as that brought about by the heart ceasing its function, might trigger a fairly patterned mental response. That was my point.
The hypothetical that Mormon Heretic proposed would be interesting, were it to happen. In fact, my mother once called me at 2 am worried because she had a dream that I was hurt. I was fine. That does not disprove the hypothetical experiment but it is merely anecdotal, like the hypothetical experiment.
And, not to be too jaded, the evidentiary value of many recounted experiences I think must be evaluated against the world-view of the story-teller. If one is raised in a particular faith, one obviously has that bias. For myself, I still use christian terms and imagery and think in those terms. So, any “vision” I might experience will likely reflect that background. I compare it to the way that saints are beified. If you look at the evidence for the “miracles” for these people, and they are good people who dedicated their lives to helping others, it is exclusively from either members of their own clergy or devout believers.
I predict the response. Scientists require that experiments are repeatable but who repeats them – more scientists! So, I concede a weakness to my point there. Nonetheless, it would be more compelling if a non-believer were among the witnesses for these miracles. But you make a good point – some experiences are very difficult, if not impossible, to quantify and validate.
I would also respond to the faith issue. I was steeped in the idea that you believed in the Bible and its teaching out of faith, that the “wisdom of man” was not adequate. My problem with that as an adult is that for things like electricity, the implications of what is believed can be demonstrated and do not run counter to the rules of nature that I can witness with my own eyes. As opposed to much of the basis of faith are things that cannot ever be demonstrated, at least until the “last day”.
I do not begrudge anyone his/her faith, so long as it doesn’t interfere with my beliefs or do any harm.
Again, I appreciate this forum and the courtesy of everyone participating. I wish you all well in your journeys.
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October 13, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Mormon Heretic
GIS Chimp,
I wish I could claim credit for my “hypothetical.” However, it is documented in the books I referenced earlier, so one could make the claims that these experiences are not at all hypothetical, but rather actual experiences. I encourage you to read the 3 books I referenced earlier. They are all short, easy reads.
(1) The book “Return from Tomorrow” is by an author (serving in the Army) who was not religious when he was pronounced clinically dead from pneumonia. Serving in the army, he engaged in many behaviors not recommended to anyone of a religious persuasion. True, he had gone to church as a youth, but his experience was sporadic, and he was not really encouraged to go to church by his parents. In his experience, he saw many different visions, including a vision of Jesus. Now, I guess you can say that he had some religious teachings as a youth, which may have affected his world view, but I think there is something to be said for the fact that he was not religious until after his experience.
(2) The book “The Message” relates several of the author’s experiences, including some at the “veil.” He says that he understands why Jews, Christians, Muslims, and others have so different experiences at the veil because the veil is so vast. Certainly, world view might explain some of the differences of experiences, but isn’t this an interesting explanation?
(2a) The author also states several experiences with his wife and children. After he revived from his coma, he asked his loved ones if they remembered experiences where the author tried to contact them during his coma. All of the conscious loved ones remembered these experiences.
These are different than your mother calling you at 2 AM. Of course, you were not hurt, so your experience was not a shared experience with your mother. However, the author’s experiences were shared experiences.
The experiences with his children happened when his children were attending school–a seemingly difficult place for a spiritual experience, and occurred in broad daylight, not 2 AM. The author stood next to his child, and the child felt the presence. The child remembers specifically sensing his father was there, and recalled it later.
Another experience concerns when his wife was driving down the road, listening to a song when she felt his presence. She looked in the passenger seat to see if he was there, but couldn’t see him. The author stated that she looked right “through him.” Both husband and wife vividly recall the experience.
Anyway, I know these are anecdotal, but my question is this: if it happened to you, would you be more open to the possibility? Also, how could you design an experiment to empirically capture these experiences to prove their validity or falsity?
I highly recommend these 3 books. The other book is “90 minutes in Heaven.”
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October 13, 2008 at 11:39 pm
Mormon Heretic
I also want to add that the first author is non-denominational in his beliefs. He believes in Jesus, but does not follow a specific denomination.
Also, what do you make of these “shared” experiences?
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September 2, 2009 at 5:10 am
Trish
My husband was not raised in any Church.
He later joined the LDS church ; there was a time before I met him that he had NDE.
He had a stroke and passed out on the floor of his shop.
He was taken to the hospital and while he was there his heart stopped at some point.
He remembers being above his body in the room and seeing the doctors working on him and getting ready to call it : in the room he look around and the whole room was lit with a bright light but he was thinking I dont wont to go to the light I want to live ; I have a family to take care of and others things to do . He told me that he did not see any angels or Jesus or God. He did feel at peace.
Next thing he was back in his body.
This incident happened years before we got married or ever met.
He stated that after that he was no longer afraid to die.
He has since passed 2005 .
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November 6, 2009 at 6:45 am
ama49
Hi Trish,
Thanks for stopping by and sharing that personal story of your husband.
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April 14, 2012 at 3:59 pm
Emily
The fascinating thing about NDE is the fact that these people experience these visions whilst flat-lining – whilst dead. Skeptics try and say it is lack of oxygen to the brain causing an “hallucination”, but the brain is physically dead and therefore in theory shouldn’t be capable of hallucination, and yet it is.
Whether the experience is true reality of afterlife or an hallucination due to medication, lack of oxygen etc – does this even matter – The whole fascination is the fact that it happens to the person when physically, actually dead! Thats the point!
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