Growing up in a Mormon society and household, modesty was something that was spoken of frequently. Since the majority of the population and culture I was in was predominately LDS, or Mormon, it was against the social norm to wear tight, or revealing clothing and when going out in the sun, bikinis were nearly unheard of.
When I went to an LDS, or Mormon college I found that although the school had a dress and honor code that reflected a similar dress standard as what I was accustomed to, there were many LDS girls who didn’t adhere to the standard when off-campus and especially at parties. At first, I was very shocked that an LDS girl would wear a bikini to the pool, or a skimpy dress to a party, but I heard over and over again that where they grew up (in a predominately non-LDS environment) it was o.k. to dress this way. This was what they felt comfortable in and if someone had a problem with it, so be it. I also heard girls who would dress this way act shocked that guys would be drooling all over them, or treating them disrespectfully.
I found the video below very interesting. The presentation discusses the things that happen to a man’s brain when he sees a girl in a bikini vs. a girl fully clothed. Take a few minutes to watch:
So what do you think? Do you think Christian women should continue to wear revealing swimwear and that it is up to the guys to control themselves, or do you think women should cover up more and help the guys out a little?
24 comments
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December 1, 2011 at 5:48 pm
Casey
I would argue that a girl can choose to wear or not wear a something for whatever reasons she likes, but saying that she must do it to “help the guys out” is offensive to me. It reinforces the pernicious idea that the responsibility for men’s sexual morality ultimately lies with women – men can’t help themselves; they are biologically incapable of seeing women as human beings in certain situations. Unfortunately that nasty, wrongheaded idea has given us everything from the Burqa to horrific female mutilation to the frigid, sexless feminine ideal of Victorian science, not to mention a justification for the immature “beer commercial culture” that excuses men for idiotic behavior because that’s “how they are”. No, thanks.
I won’t get into the tautological assumptions behind assigning some parts of the brain as “object” parts and such, admitting that I don’t have much expertise in evolutionary biology and brain development, but the way he presents the science strikes me as very dodgy and all-too-convenient as well.
December 3, 2011 at 9:18 am
graceforgrace
Hi Casey,
I’m glad you stopped by because I’m sure there are quite a few girls who feel the same way that you do.
I agree with you in part. Guys can look lustfully on ladies no matter what amount of clothing they have on and in any case, guys should learn how to look respectfully at women and look, turn, or walk away from those who are scantily clad either in pictures or in person.
Where I disagree is that women do not take an active roll in this. I’m sure most ladies know what attracts guys attention and if it is the intention for the lady to not catch the eyes of the guy, then she would probably choose to wear something less revealing, or if she was wearing it, wear it where she knew there were not a lot of guys present.
December 1, 2011 at 5:51 pm
Casey
PS – not saying that the OP was arguing in favor of the “girls must help the guys out” argument – just that anyone who has or does argue for that (I’m looking at you, E. Oaks) is in dangerous water (and notice how no other GAs, as far as I am aware, have repeated the Oaks argument in spite of the many anti-pornography rhetoric since).
December 1, 2011 at 8:47 pm
michael
Interesting video. I have heard parts of this before. Thanks for the info. I didn’t read the full comments, but I saw part saying its up to the girl. I do agree with that. However, there are always consequences to those choices. You can be looked at as a tool and one not in power or you can have the opposite affect of how you dress. You can also divert the the temptation a man may have to do something he shouldn’t as well. You can’t prevent everything even if you dress appropriately, but you can sure give it your best and dress is an easy and first start.
December 3, 2011 at 5:21 pm
graceforgrace
Michael,
I feel that some guys…probably more than a few….will still be dirty in their thoughts and actions regardless. However, women dressing modestly is as you say, an “easy and first start”.
December 1, 2011 at 8:50 pm
michael
p.s.s. this goes for both parties. Consequences to everything that is and I have seen studies with about men causing similar effects on the women’s brain when a guy is in shape with the abs with no shirt…
December 2, 2011 at 4:59 am
Ken
Enough of this already. Men have one person to blame for their misdeeds and illicit thoughts – the person starring back at them in the mirror every morning. Period, end of story.
December 2, 2011 at 7:08 am
Cal
I agree with the speaker.
First Peter 3:3-4 says, “Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight.”
Today’s culture in the US has slipped SO far from God’s ways. I am going to stick to God’s ways as best I can because I trust him. I know I will be better off in the long run if I do.
I know women don’t often know what effect their bodies have on men, but I believe it will be helpful if they become aware of how God made us, just as it is helpful if we men are aware of how sensitive women are so we can be good husbands and co-workers.
I’ve always had more respect for women who dress modestly.
December 3, 2011 at 5:16 pm
graceforgrace
I’m with you on this too Cal. Thanks for the comment and scripture reference.
December 2, 2011 at 4:18 pm
Ken
Me too Cal but I will never blame a woman for my thoughts or behavior.
December 2, 2011 at 7:00 pm
Cal
Ken, I agree with you there. (It’s good to see you back on GraceforGrace.)
December 3, 2011 at 5:16 pm
graceforgrace
Hi Ken,
I agree that this doesn’t mean men should use this as an excuse for poor behavior towards women. All men still have a choice. However, I think women should take responsibility as well. If a woman is dressed immodestly I would assume that she most likely knows it will catch the eye of most men in a way that is different than if she were modestly dressed.
December 4, 2011 at 5:54 pm
Cal
It would be interesting to see a survey of how aware women are of how their bodies can effect men, and why they wear revealing clothing, swimwear, etc.
I suspect that many of them are just going along with the fads.
December 3, 2011 at 12:00 pm
Aaron
When I think of how our US culture has slipped from God’s ways, women in bikinis are not the first thing that comes to mind.
December 7, 2011 at 6:34 pm
Bradley
I think it’s more about leveling the playing field. Guys adjust to the average, so you have Muslims drooling over exposed ankles. When a good looking girl shows her stuff, the other girls get jealous. It breaks unwritten rules about gaining social advantage.
December 7, 2011 at 10:16 pm
Jettboy
Did anyone actually listen to the video? Perhaps I should post this CNN article with the headline that men see women in bikinis as objects and tools. Read it and then comment about, “It reinforces the pernicious idea that the responsibility for men’s sexual morality ultimately lies with women – men can’t help themselves; they are biologically incapable of seeing women as human beings in certain situations.” The science is saying exactly that! If you want to find a competing study or interpretation, fine. Until then it looks like the responsibility of women to dress modestly to “help men” is testable and evident.
December 11, 2011 at 2:17 am
graceforgrace
Hi Jettboy,
Thanks for the reference. It goes right along with what I was trying to point out in the post.
December 7, 2011 at 10:19 pm
Jettboy
Because this site doesn’t do html very well, here is the link I meant to include with the headline about men see women in a bikini as an object and tools:
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-02-19/health/women.bikinis.objects_1_bikini-strip-clubs-sexism?_s=PM%3AHEALTH
December 11, 2011 at 5:46 am
Cal
I think we’d all agree that it’s okay for a woman to wear a bikini if no one except her husband is around.
It follows, then, that it’s okay for men to think of their wives as objects or tools sometimes.
December 16, 2011 at 11:44 pm
ezra
Excellent video. Thanks for sharing it, Ama.
The points were well made and the points unassailable…
as shown in the responses above.
:-
December 21, 2011 at 9:46 am
Kalli
Did you actually read the study? It said that the findings were statistically insignificant. To find out more why this video was full of misrepresentations, read my response to the video here: http://jacobandkalli.blogspot.com/2011/11/my-response-to-should-christian-women.html
May 6, 2012 at 6:17 pm
noblenarcissist
While it is true that the natural male response to a naked or scantily clad females is sexual and his thinking brain shuts off and his animal brain turns on, I don’t think it’s impossible for men to reprogram their brains. Gandhi was able to successfully program himself not to have lustful thoughts towards naked women. To prove his own self control to himself he slept in the same bed with two of his nieces without touching either of them. Also there are many male gynecologists who have trained their minds not to think of women’s bodies in a sexual way, so as to avoid malpractice lawsuits. It can be done, but I doubt you’d find many college students who have spent the time training their minds in this way. Either us guys who claim to have the priesthood take seriously the notion of keeping our thoughts pure or we have to place the burden on women to keep themselves clothed in attire like burkas. No matter how hard you try to get all the women in the world to be modest, you’ll never get your way, so learn to control what you do have control over: your mind.
May 6, 2012 at 6:20 pm
noblenarcissist
BTW, I’m not claiming to be perfect in this regard. I’m still working on training my mind, but as I stated there are men who have figured it out. That gives me hope for my own development.
May 7, 2012 at 4:51 pm
graceforgrace
Sleeping with nieces….yuck!